To wonder why people stay Mrs after divorce?

[TrainsandDiggers]

Linked to the other popular thread (which I apologise I have not been able to read all of, so this may be repeating somewhat...) I’ve often wondered why some women chose to remain known as Mrs after divorce. Even if they want to keep their surname, why the title?

(No judgement on anyone who does this btw - just genuinely curious).

I'm assuming that the most vociferous anti name changers also rejected all the other patriarchal traditions when they married? Otherwise the outrage seems a tad selective. Assuming they didn't wear white, ( a very misogynistic back story!) , that their father didn't give them away, that they wear no wedding ring?

Why only pick on the name change as a tradition to kick back on? Is it perhaps the easiest one to reject? You can still have the glitzy day but "Look! I'm a Feminist too!, See how I refuse to be a chattel".

The entire history of marriage is based on woman as property. Most of the Western world - men +women, other than the very religious in some cases -,rejected that wholesale byC21, which we largely accept, no matter how hard people try to cite individual cases.

Louisianna16 as you say the whole institution is riddled with contradictions. You can't do everything and change everything at once. Name changing and honourifics do seem to have stuck more in the U.K. than in other countries though.

In the US Ms is commonly used, in France and Germany and other places in Europe the equivalent of Mrs is used for older women. So this tradition is changing in lots of other places.

What we are seeing, I think, is the beginning of the end for Miss. it will fade away.

Back to marriage, lots of people do reject the whole institution and find the symbolism unpleasant. Not having a big 'symbolic' wedding or not getting married at all is not as noticeable as having a big, white wedding so it doesn't draw as much comment.

If you've married, then you've accepted that the institution has evolved and no longer regards women as property. There is no reason you should not be able to understand that the name changing tradition has similarly evolved.

Which is not to say you shouldn't keep your maiden name if you want to, or that there's anything wrong with it. It is a choice. But it does mean that if you lecture and patronise women who chose differently to you, and suggest your choice is somehow superior, you are full of selective, disingenuous shit.

So all as it was, then.

Not having a big 'symbolic' wedding or not getting married at all is not as noticeable as having a big, white wedding so it doesn't draw as much comment.

Even if that weren't bollocks (which it is), it's still irrelevant. You can make your life decisions based around what you're scared of people saying, but I won't.

She was a respected colleague who was turned into a sexual spectacle because of her name changes. It was such a shame.

The shame here belongs to the women hating colleagues who decided to sexually slur her for having the audacity to divorce and remarry.

The shame here belongs to the women hating colleagues who decided to sexually slur her for having the audacity to divorce and remarry.

Too damn right.

Exactly, and you blaming her for it because she changed her name makes you wven worse.

If I hadn't married my husband, I'd have stayed as Mrs Xhusband, however, I fell pregnant with my first child shortly after getting with my now husband so changed my name to mrs nowhusband by deed poll so as sons surname or birth certificate didn't have xhusbands name on at all. I became mrs nowhusband 2 months before son was born by deed poll and got married 5 months after he was born. So technically I've been mrs nowhusband 7 months longer than we've been married!

CheeseandTom, so you did change your name by deed poll, before marriage, but you changed it to your husband's?

I can hear certain brains exploding all over the thread. And nothing of value was lost.

@PoorYorick

Yes that's right. Whenever I have to explain the history of name changes, people tend to look baffled and wish they'd not asked!!

I didn't engage in the gossip about name change woman - shame on you for thinking I did. I confronted people when they did comment about her - shame on you for thinking I wouldn't.

I contributed to her defence because I don't think women should be shamed for their choices of partner or marital preferences. I didn't "blame" her for anything, I attempted to defend her. The reason behind the worst of the gossip was the public nature of her name changes.

That did not however stop a significant amount of people commenting on her and sniggering about her. It was a shame.

Lots of posters seem ready to jump to negative judgments while maintaining that negative judgments shouldn't be made. Funny that.

Yes, we are ready to jump to negative judgement of those who negatively judge. Live with it

I didn't engage in the gossip about name change woman - shame on you for thinking I did.

Given that you have sneered at name changers for 'displaying their love lives for all and sundry to comment on', I'd say you've shamed not just her but every married woman who changed her name. As well as showing your prejudice and absolute pig ignorance about why some women choose to name change.

Lots of posters seem ready to jump to negative judgments while maintaining that negative judgments shouldn't be made.

I don't approve of making negative judgments for personal choices that affect nobody else, but I'm 100% cool with making a negative judgement when a person is being an utter asshat.

You have lost, Mousse. Do yourself and everyone else a favour and just hide the thread. Last night you appeared to have some multiple personalities, it was that bloody bizarre.

Who have I judged?

You are making massive assumptions and then judging negatively. I wouldn't make the same choices in relation to marriage, I can argue about the nature of the choices, I can put forward and support opposing views, but that is not the same as judging someone. Disagreeing and judging are very different.

This woman was struggling with a difficult time in her life making decisions based on societal expectations and she was then judged negatively even though she was trying to do what she believed to be 'the right thing'. I think that's sad, I think it would have been easier for her if she had been free from societal pressure to change her name. But she was free to make her choice and I would support her right to choose.

I stand by the comment that she was and people are "displaying their love lives for all and sundry to comment on".

She did and people did. I think it's a shame that happens, it does however happen and it does impact negatively on people. Lots of people judge and some people call each other names. As a general rule I try not to.

Mousse, how does your mind work? I have said over and over again about how you have judged women who name changed. The direct quote about 'displaying their love lives' was just one example. There was also acting as though their reasons were 'odd' and 'confusing' (they're not, unless you have precisely three brain cells) and more besides.

Do you think you can invalidate all of this and erase your previous posts by saying 'Who have I judged?' over and over again, as if it hasn't been answered 12 times already?

Last night you went from uptight schoolmarm to Yosemite Sam in five seconds flat. It was truly surreal. Though for the record, I want you to know that I didn't report your weird, gibbering post about hairy legged feminists. That was actually the only post of yours that I've enjoyed.

I stand by the comment that she was and people are "displaying their love lives for all and sundry to comment on*

Then you are judging, and you have no reason for it, and you are being hateful, and ignorant, and you can go swivel.

@PoorYorick yes you have "said over and over again about how you have judged women who name changed". Unfortunately for you just because you say it doesn't mean it's true.

I do find it "odd" that women choose to do something that causes so much angst. It seems to generate no end of discussion and deep thought when there is a simple solution. That is not sneering or judgmental it's a genuine comment.

Why do something when it might well cause problems when there is a simple solution? However, that is your choice and while I find it odd you are perfectly at liberty to do it.

I do find it "odd" that women choose to do something that causes so much angst.

It only causes angst because of people like you attempting to denigrate them for it all the time. Leave them alone and they're perfectly happy.

What sort of logic is this? "Why do women do Thing X when it causes them angst for me to be an arsehole about it?"

Perhaps it's the same logic as "Women who name change are displaying their love lives for all and sundry to comment on, and they are also weird. What? Where have I judged anyone?"

In this instance I gave the women was quite factually " displaying her love life". She just was.

She got married and changed her name. Got divorced and returned to her maiden name. Got remarried and changed her name again. She was on email and after every instance in her love life the whole company was informed via email due to her name change. This is what happened - facts.

Other people made negative comments about her, I told them to mind their own business. It was her choice to make.

I think claiming this is both "hateful" and "ignorant" is a little extreme.

"Attempt to denigrate them" how have I done this - by calling them names and telling them to "swivel"?

I defended this woman as I would defend any woman being called names because she gets either married or divorced.

"Attempt to denigrate them" how have I done this

By your vile, sexist remarks about 'displaying their love lives', and your haranguing of a woman who dared to marry, divorce, remarry and make a name choice you disapprove of. She clearly didn't care that her email address was changing, so what business is it of yours to decide she'd shamed herself in front of the company? The only person who should be ashamed for seeing it that way is YOU.

How often are you going to just come back and ask again, 'How have I judged anyone?' as if it hasn't been said 98 times already? Do you think this somehow mitigates the revolting things you've said about women?

The thing is PoorYorick she did care. People do care when they are talked about. Because of the public nature of the name change her love life was on display. She was distressed about the gossip, it did cause her angst. That is where the sadness lies. If she didn't care it wouldn't have mattered but very few people are able to shake off name calling and gossip.

Others shouldn't have judged her but they did. Making judgments about people on flimsy evidence is and then calling them names is unpleasant but human.

You seem very offended by my statement of fact about her public love life but her love life did become public when it could have remained private.^^ While being offended by that you are quite happy to joke about " getting back in the kitchen".

@pooryorrick that kind of is what you’re doing by changing your name every time you get married (or divorced). How is it anyone’s business if women are married or not? Why does it need to be announced? Or rather why do you need to announce it?

Like I said I have never seen a woman on mumset (or I believe in real life) change their name cos it’s hard to spell/ difficult to pronounce/associated with their father who they do not like, etc other than on marriage. So all of those reasons are pretty unconvincing regardless of your nutty ranting.

It’s your name. If you don’t like it change it. But why on marriage? I know one man who decided to name the kids after his wife but he still kept his own surname.

Changing your name to your husbands is quite a profound thing to do. Not really the same as wearing a white dress for a day. It’s not a feminist choice (but before you start with the rants- up to you to make).

@zsazsajuju I am still waiting for you to post a direct quote and link where I told women to marry rich men for protection. If you can't, say you can't.

The thing is PoorYorick she did care. People do care when they are talked about.

Well then don't talk about her then! She hasn't done anything wrong so get your curtain twitching beak out and stop your ridiculous insinuation that she brought this on herself by changing her name.

Don't you have anything better to do?

PoorYorick I don't want to be rude but are you reading my posts? You state:

Well then don't talk about her then!

I have already said:

I didn't engage in the gossip about name change woman - shame on you for thinking I did. I confronted people when they did comment about her - shame on you for thinking I wouldn't

I observed her name changes and then I observed the reaction. I did what I could to stop the gossip but people just talked when I wasn't around. You agree with me that she hasn't done anything wrong. That's right she hasn't.

This isn't about the issue any more it is about you trying to make me look bad. I am happy to disagree with you and debate the issue but the name calling seems 'odd'.

You haven't addressed the point about your horror at my supposed "denigration" of this woman and your willingness to throw insults around. Either denigration is bad or it isn't.