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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Ludicrous abortion comment from DP

200 replies

WomanEmpire · 12/05/2018 07:26

This was said last night, and honestly I’m furious. I don’t think it can be forgotten or forgiven :(

I had my first son as a teen, finding out when I was nearly 5 months pregnant, etc. Original plan had been abortion but I changed my mind, obviously.

Someone close to DP has had an abortion and he feels sad for her. I made a comment that I didn’t think he should feel anything about it particularly, as it was a choice she wanted/was happy with. He then said I was dismissing the distress an abortion can bring, and that ‘it’s clear you are actually anti-abortion, because otherwise you would have had one yourself’

I’m shocked because a) that was fucking spiteful b) I am nothing but pro woman

I said that obviously if it was her talking about it, I’d be all ears, but I don’t see the need to sit and speak to him about it as it has fuck all to do with him.

Not quite sure if it’s an AIBU, but I feel really down about it and just wondered if I’m being a little irrational about it? I don’t want to face him this morning.

OP posts:

reallybadidea · 12/05/2018 08:21

I do kinda get where you're coming from OP, I find the idea of a man being sad about an abortion happening (rather than sad for the person having it) rather aggravating.

On the other hand, it was his potential niece/nephew, so I guess it is more understandable that he might feel some sense of loss. I really hope he doesn't share his feelings with his sister thought!

wellBeehivedWoman · 12/05/2018 08:22

I think it's totally reasonable for him to feel sad for his friend - he's entitled to his feelings, and as long as he's not encouraging her to make a different decision or making her feel bad about it, he's allowed to feel how he feels. I am stridently pro-choice but I wouldn't have an abortion myself and I think aborting after about 20 weeks is upsetting. That doesn't mean I want the law changed or would ever judge a woman who had an abortion at that time or try to change her mind. You can support a woman in making a choice you wouldn't make yourself and find upsetting.

What I think is wrong of your DP is to make statements about how you feel - your decision to not have an abortion doesn't have anything to do with your stance on abortion generally.

I think you need to separate out these two feelings and talk to your DP. Explain that you're sorry for judging how he feels for his friend and acknowledge that he's entitled to feel how he feels and to discuss that with you if he wants support without you criticising those feelings. Then explain that nonetheless you're hurt that he said you aren't pro-choice because you are and that's important to you.

WindsweptNotInteresting · 12/05/2018 08:22

windswept are you reading what you are writing? Obviously I’m going to be upset being called anti-abortion, why does ME not having an abortion make me anti-abortion for everyone else

Agh! That is not what I'm saying! I have never said nor implied you are anti abortion, I said I don't understand why you are so angry, considering your own circumstances. But I'm going to leave it here because you keep adding 'new' information with every post and you don't to want to listen to people saying you are being unreasonable.

RoadToRivendell · 12/05/2018 08:22

Might be useful to just write him a script of what you think he should say/feel to avoid such ugliness in the future.

RLOU88 · 12/05/2018 08:22

I had one at 16 and my brother (6 years older) actually cried when he found out. You’re wrong.

Slightlyperturbedowlagain · 12/05/2018 08:23

I think you are getting an unnecessarily hard time here. Obviously not having an abortion yourself doesn’t make you anti-abortion. You can be pro-choice but choose yourself to go ahead with a pregnancy. That’s the whole point of choice. There are very few circumstances where I would have chosen an abortion but I am definitely pro-choice.
As for your DH’s feelings about his sister’s abortion, whilst it’s ok for him to feel a little sad about the whole situation I also agree with you that he isn’t entitled to go on a grief-fest about it. She is happy with her choice, he needs to be happy that she had the choice and didn’t end up dying or becoming infertile due to a botched illegal abortion, or having to carry a baby to term when she didn’t want to. He might also usefully reflect on the reasons she didn’t feel she could confide in him at the time, as his reaction when he has found out is quite telling IMO.

pinkdelight · 12/05/2018 08:23

"is not something he should be sitting there moping about"

And this is supposed to be you backing down?? Stop saying what he should or shouldn't feel and dismissing his feelings as moping. Sorry, but you sound horrible. This is his sister. He loves her. Of course he has feelings and they are his feelings, not hers or yours to arbitrate.

PeakPants · 12/05/2018 08:23

OP, I agree with you actually and I am not sure why you are getting such a hard time. Abortion has become clouded in language of trauma and guilt- people automatically assume that having an abortion is a life-changing horrific act that stays with you forever and that a 'good' woman who has an abortion is left traumatised by it. Not only is that not true for many women, but it impacts deeply on those women who otherwise might have felt OK about it. They are basically told that they have to be traumatised when they really don't.

There's a lot of this pontificating by men going on in Ireland at the moment- I have heard priests and others say how bad abortion is for women- leaves them bereft forever etc. I actually think 'no uterus, no opinion'. If your DH's friend was upset or grieving, empathy would be being sad for her. However, she is not upset and grieving- he is not being empathetic- he is imposing his view of abortion as a Terrible Thing onto her. You are right- he should not feel anything about it, other than feeling sad that she had to make the choice in the context of loads of emotional guff about how she would regret this forever and would never be happy again.

Also, you going through with a pregnancy is not you being anti-abortion. The point of abortion is that it's a choice over what happens to your body. It makes fuck all difference whether you, I, or Jane down the road have one or want to have one. Don't like abortion? Don't have one, I say. But please give women the right to choose without making them feel worse about it by making it seem like it's the worst thing they could do.

Original poster

WomanEmpire · 12/05/2018 08:23

buzz maybe that’s the issue here. People aren’t seeing why I’m so upset by being pro life and I had so many people comment on my situation when it was me, that it made me so angry that he was commenting on hers.

Sorry for the drip feed, sorry for offending, clearly my own issues but I do think that his comment was bang out of order and that what his sister did with her body and choice, is nothing to do with him.

OP posts:

ittakes2 · 12/05/2018 08:24

People don't choose to have feelings. It just happens. Regardless of the subject matter, he felt sad about something and expressed it to you - you chose to tell him for some reason he had no right to have those feelings - or at least he shouldn't have expressed them to you. I must admit if someone was telling me I had no right to feel a certain way about my sister I would be pretty mad. You have a very strong opinion on what he is allowed to feel which puzzles me and makes me wonder if you have some internal conflict over the subject. For the people I know who have had an abortion, they spent considerable time considering whether it was what they wanted and/or whether it was right for them. It seems he was around when his sister went through this process - so he seems well placed to have an insight into her personal journey...so I don't get why you don't feel he is allowed to feel sad?
Although it seems what you said hit a nerve in him, because what he said in retaliation to you was absolutely appaulling. You might want to consider sitting him down to explain this to him and see how he reacts to you telling him how you feel.

Palegreenstars · 12/05/2018 08:25

To be upset that your sister went through something challenging and you didn’t know about it is a normal reaction.

I’d be gutted if my sister had an abortion and didn’t tell me. Totally respectful of her decision both to have one and not tell me but still personally sad and I’d hope to be able to communicate that with my spouse and then be supportive.

You’ve had 5 years to react to this knowledge he’s had very little time. Be reasonable

freezerfoodyum · 12/05/2018 08:25

Abortion has become clouded in language of trauma and guilt- people automatically assume that having an abortion is a life-changing horrific act that stays with you forever and that a 'good' woman who has an abortion is left traumatised by it.

This in absolute spades.

Mousefunky · 12/05/2018 08:26

Many men have no idea what an abortion actually entails physically or mentally for a woman at all. I have met men who think it is just a couple of pills, a heavy period and that is the end of it. They don’t accept it can potentially have psychological repercussions for a very long time so the fact your DP has shows a lot of empathy and compassion.

His comment towards you wasn’t extremely compassionate though, I would have been fucked off about that.

PeakPants · 12/05/2018 08:26

I had one at 16 and my brother (6 years older) actually cried when he found out. You’re wrong.

Why was he crying? I could understand being upset that my sister had to go through a difficult time and make a difficult choice at such a young age. If it was crying over 'dead babies' however, I would have told him to get to fuck.

adaline · 12/05/2018 08:26

Maybe he's sad she felt she had to make that decision? Abortion isn't easy for most people, after all.

Nobody is saying that her decision is anything to do with him, but he's still allowed to feel sad about it. Personally I'd be glad to have a partner who had the ability to feel sadness or empathy towards other people. I think it's a good quality to have.

MarthaArthur · 12/05/2018 08:27

So he has only just found out his sister had an abortion 5 years ago which you say she found upsetting at the time (paraphrasing). You knew all along and are now pissed off because he is expressing sympathy at only just finding out? What a weird controlling person you are.
His comment was not nice but he obviously felt attacked and lashed out.
Who are you to decide how he can feel about something. And as his wife why do you think he has no right to talk to you in private about anything?! Imagine if everyone subscribed to dont speak because its none of your business. The world would become very quiet.

HellenaHandbasket · 12/05/2018 08:27

I understand what you mean. His sympathy is actually a value judgement on the abortion and her choice to have one.

I'm not sure I would react as strongly as you, even though I have had a termination, but I can see what nuance you are feeling from him.

HellenaHandbasket · 12/05/2018 08:28

I certainly wouldn't tolerate anyone feeling sorry for me having had one, I made a decision as a grown adult and it isn't one I have regretted or felt any sorrow over since.

Original poster

WomanEmpire · 12/05/2018 08:28

PeakPants and you have just articulated everything I was trying to say. Thank you.

OP posts:

Storm4star · 12/05/2018 08:28

Wow OP, you are coming across as pretty heartless i’m afraid. Yes it was 100% his sisters choice but the guy has only just found out so not only is he processing his feelings over the abortion, but also the fact it was hidden from him by everyone he loves. Are you really this cold hearted? It was his sister! Yes he has every right to feel sad about it. If you can’t see that then I feel a bit sorry for you.

NataliaOsipova · 12/05/2018 08:28

The OP is getting a hard time here. Your first statement, OP was this: I seriously don’t think he should have an opinion on it, it’s got nothing to do with what he decides.

And I agree with you! But it's true of many, many things in life. Why should anyone have any opinion on whether someone has a large family or not? What childcare they use? Whether they work or not? Ad infinitum. But human nature just isn't like that.

And in this situation? It is his sister. By the sound of it, he feels sad that she didn't tell him about it. He may wish that he'd had that nephew or niece. Not his decision, absolutely. But his thoughts and feelings are his own and, in fairness, it's his wife to whom he's expressing this. Would be unforgivable if he said it to his sister, but he's just exploring those feelings with you. He doesn't sound like a great philosopher or master debater, I grant you, but I don't think he's said anything to warrant you taking such offence. You disagree and it's fine that you do. You've made your feelings clear to him and hopefully he'll reflect on that. But I wouldn't let it drive a wedge between you.

RoadToRivendell · 12/05/2018 08:30

While I disagree totally with the OP's view on her husband's comment, I totally agree with this. I get terribly fed up with the assumption that it's traumatic.

I also hate that stupid slogan that abortion should be 'legal and rare' or something, this was knocking about the US at some point (maybe it still is).

Jesu · 12/05/2018 08:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Adviceplease360 · 12/05/2018 08:30

You sound very odd, I agree with what he said.
You 'supported' his sister through a choice you were not willing to make for yourself, he most likely thinks you are a great hypocrite.
Back off the guy, you sound like hard work.

immortalmarble · 12/05/2018 08:30

I do think there is a lot of instinctive revulsion around abortion: people who support the right to have an abortion still apparently feel that it should not be too “easy” (usually claims to know Someone who Had Four Abortions As Contraception And Is Having A Fifth) and dislike the fact that many women terminate a pregnancy and literally get on with their day.

I think the comment about “you clearly don’t agree with abortion” is a peculiar one but with that being said, most people I know who had a child when the circumstances weren’t ideal are actually anti abortion, even if they claim they are not.

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