To remove my son from a trip

[Alwayssearching]

So he's due to go abroad with the school this summer.
He's been on the fence with his silly behaviour as to whether he is allowed to go.
Deposit paid.. If I pull him out. I get that back
However if I pay it all and then his behaviour doesn't improve the school stops him going. And no money is refunded. Its £400. Which I agree as they have to pay the holiday company.
However if we been in two minds whether to pull him or. Not due to his silliness and behaviour.
Today I get a call saying he's swallowed an elastic band for a dare.. Now im now thinking I can't trust him at all to go away..
He's known he's on a thin line to go and yet he's still done it.
Problem is I'm a soft touch and would feel bad him not going when he's always gone on every trip etc.. Maybe it will be a lesson learned tho.?

With that level of behaviour, pull him from the trip. Explain he can go on the next trip IF he gets his behaviour and attitude consistently under control to the point there is no question as to whether the school will pull him or not. He's old enough to realise that he has created this situation and has had enough chances. He's playing the system as close to the line as he can. If he does manage to toe the line just enough to go he will revert right back to square one and quit trying as soon as he's back from the trip - if not while on the trip tho I suspect he will play the system there too. Do just enough to not get sent home. Draw firm lines now.

1. Find out why he's behaving the way he is? Is there a deeper reason?
2. Pull him from the trip. It's not fair on everyone else - teachers and pupils - to take him and risk him being an idiot.

I’d commit to letting him go on condition that if he gets pulled for bad behaviour he will pay every penny of it back. Spell out to him that means all Christmas and birthday presents, pocket money, club subs etc, basically any money he would normally have spent on him.

I think you have to allow for the fact that he is trying to establish himself a friendship group. He’s not making the best choices but he is only 12. The trip might be an opportunity to bond with some different kids and grow up a bit.

Sorry if I missed it but what was he like in Primary?

I would say no to the trip, not just for cost but out of consideration for the staff/other students and to save yourself the stress of wondering when you're going to get 'that' phone call..

Something's up if he hasn't settled in Secondary - it might be that he's currently too immature for the increased strictness/level of work or something more fundamental with the school. Perhaps with the seriousness of being pulled from the trip he will talk to you or someone else about it.

I had exactly this scenario with my DD at the same age some years ago.
I thought about pulling her from the trip and losing the £100 deposit but in the end I decided to give her the benefit of the doubt and paid the remainder so she could go.
Fast forward a few weeks, her behaviour didn't improve so the school refused to take her. £500 down the drain. Unfortunately, after the initial upset, it never bothered her one bit!
On that basis I think I'd be inclined to say he can't go. Hopefully it will mean he thinks twice about his behaviour in future.

I wouldn't pay £400 for a school trip regardless of behaviour. That's more than I pay for our annual family holiday. Schools shouldn't do these type of trips.
But that's missing the point of the OP. However I would suggest to the school that the children not going (for whatever reason) get together and have to do a fundraising event (planned and organised by themselves with a small bit of adult help) to raise money for them to have a day out at the seaside/theme park etc and the rules being they have to both help with the fundraising and have good behaviour the go on the trip.

He walks out of class?????? That'd be enough even if my son had only done that once! It wouldn't just be no trip, it'd be no iPad/computer games etc etc.

Walking out of lessons and refusing to work if he doesn't like the teacher is a hell of a lot more than a bit of "silliness"
I'd be down in him like a ton of bricks for that, never mind musing about whether school will pull the plug on his trip or not.

The amount of people who would 'come down hard' or punish their kid is astonishing - maybe asking what is wrong and talking to them is a good idea... they are people with feelings just the same as anyone else and deserve to be heard and understood.
All of our behaviours always has a reason.

I would pull him out, walking out of class and fighting is hardly silliness, he needs to learn that it’s not exceptable.

What are his reasons for walking out of class? Was he like this in year 6? You need to get to the bottom of his behaviour and find out what (if anything) is causing it. But what ever the reason I think your best bet is to pull him out due to his behaviour and the fact you could end up paying £400 for a trip he doesn’t go on.

I don't know about the trip, but I would be seriously concerned if my twelve-year-old felt it was ok to walk out of lessons or refuse to do work. At best the school is not a good fit for him

I wouldn't send him. His behaviour so far just isn't good enough to deserve a £400 trip.

If he knows he is on a thin line, and the trip is hanging in the balance
. . . but today still swallowed an elastic band for a dare.

He either doesn't really want to go, or behaviour is currently such that it may cause you and teachers a headache on a trip (not to mention the risk of losing money for cancelling). He can't just walk away from a teacher abroad if he disagrees.

It is not so much a punishment, but it is not really suitable for him at this stage. Hopefully the behaviour will improve and he can join trips in future.

It's not about punishing them, it's about a natural consequence. He is partaking in behaviour that is dangerous and detrimental to him. Of course there has to be conversations about why, but there still has to be some attempt to stop the detrimental behaviour. If a child had his hand on a hot iron, would you start talking to them about why they were doing it? No. You'd first remove their hand so they didn't harm themselves, THEN you'd talk about why.

Tell him you’ve cancelled it.
My son was similar but due to asd. If he felt uncomfortable he would walk/run. He could be rude and disrespectful but usually because he was confused or scared.
I did let him go on a trip abroad after lots of discussions with school and I spent the whole time worrying but I actually think it helped him. The independence that he feared actually gave him a massive boast. It’s different because of the asd but it made him.

All of our behaviours always has a reason.

He gets a laugh out of it and a bit a kudos from the other kids and doesn't have to do boring homework or sit in boring lessons. I think it's quite obvious what he gets out of it OP has already said she;s a bit of a pushover. Agree with others this is way more than a bit of silliness - he's on his way to being excluded and ending up in a PRU.

If OP thinks this is merely a bit of silliness that probably explains why he persists with it...

Thank you for your replies, sorry didn't respond earlier, fell asleep when the baby did lol.
He's home from school now so just about to sit and have a long chat with him. Also waiting in his head of year to call me to see their views after today.
But agree that he shouldn't go. X

Be strong, don’t let his upset talk you round. Tell him you will invest your time and effort into helping him feel secure and behave appropriately, but you won’t send good money after bad.

Because of these special circumstances why not ask the school if you can defer payment and give him an ultimatum: perfect behaviour for a week both at school and at home, otherwise he loses the trip. At least he has the chance to do something about it then, also if he can control himself for a week then he proves he is able to behave on the trip. Maybe have a treat waiting for him too if he has similar perfect behaviour on the trip - some sort of family outing? Bit of quality time.

Can I give you a very short story from 'the other side', for context?

When I was 12, I travelled to Canada with my Guide company for International Camp. It was an AMAZING experience, we fundraised for a year to go, and I was really excited.

On our first day out in Toronto, I was in a group with the 'class clown', who, while not a 'bad' kid, was always testing the rules etc. We weren't friends per se (I was quite a quiet, introverted child), but we got on well enough and I thought I'd try to make the best of it.

At one point, said CC nipped off while our leader wasn't looking, ran into a shop, and stole a handful of sweets. We followed her and were trying to convince her to replace the sweets when we were caught by the store's security. As we were in a group, we were all implicated.

As a result, we were all put on 'lockdown' and weren't allowed to take part in any group activities for the next two days, and, of course, our parents were told when we got home. I could have DIED of shame (fortunately, my parents believed me when I told them the truth, but it still hurt).

Look at it this way: your child may have some behavioural or emotional problems which nobody perhaps nobody is aware of ATM, and, if so, that's probably a journey that has to be undertaken in other time. Please don't take the risk of spoiling other children's or teachers' enjoyment.

I'd pull him out because if hes doing stupid things here like swallowing rubber bands god knows what he'll be doing when hes off the leash abroad. The last thing you want is for him to wind up in hosptal abroad and you having to fly out with your partner/husband.
I'd say he can do things with his friends when he can pay for it by himself and take responsibility for himself.So basically at 18.

He has said the reason he does the silly things is because of who he's with.. I said don't hang with them hang with x, y, z who I know he's mates with but they hang with someone who he clashes with as the boy is a bully. I've said there's loads of people he could be with I stead and he's old enough to make the correct decisions.
Totally agree the other stuff isn't just silliness, but should of explained they were more previous issues earlier in the year, but occasionally hell have a blip now. So still not good.

I have told him the trip is cancelled, his first reaction was ' so' but its now sunk in and he looks deep in thought.

The school have just rang. They have said I can pull out now and add him later if he improves.
However they feel that if we went and had another meeting. Lay the cards on the table about how he's been and what implications there would be of something silly happened on the trip I. E a silly dare etc. . Then he would improve.

Waiting for dp to get home and also speak with him. But as it stands he's not going

Don't send him. I say this as a teacher who has run many trips abroad. If he can't behave properly he will monopolise the time of the staff on the trip and annoy the other students. They find it funny for a bit when others clown around but after a while it becomes tedious.
Also, if he does stupid things like swallowing elastic bands he's a bit of a liability. I would be very uncomfortable taking a student like this on a residential trip if this sort of thing is a regular occurrence.

Tough call, but well done.

Agree he shouldn't go. If he's behaving like this in Yr7 imagine what he will be like when he gets to Yr10? Needs teaching a lesson, and to see that his behaviour has consequences