To remove my son from a trip

[Alwayssearching]

So he's due to go abroad with the school this summer.
He's been on the fence with his silly behaviour as to whether he is allowed to go.
Deposit paid.. If I pull him out. I get that back
However if I pay it all and then his behaviour doesn't improve the school stops him going. And no money is refunded. Its £400. Which I agree as they have to pay the holiday company.
However if we been in two minds whether to pull him or. Not due to his silliness and behaviour.
Today I get a call saying he's swallowed an elastic band for a dare.. Now im now thinking I can't trust him at all to go away..
He's known he's on a thin line to go and yet he's still done it.
Problem is I'm a soft touch and would feel bad him not going when he's always gone on every trip etc.. Maybe it will be a lesson learned tho.?

My son went through a bit of a patch at that age, I stepped in really quickly and spoke to his form tutor and put him on ‘report’ where he had to get his sheet signed in every lesson by the teacher and comments on his behaviour, he was really angry and embarrassed as he said it was just for the really naughty kids and no one else’s parents ask for their child to go on report. I think it made him see himself from a different viewpoint and I made it clear that I didn’t care what anyone else’s parents did I would not accept poor behaviour and there will always be consequences because I care about him and his education, luckily this worked and he settled down pretty quick, although he did not make a huge effort with all his subjects he kept on the right side of acceptable behaviour.

I went on a residential trip to France with DD's school two months ago. There were 56 children on the trip with 6 adults. I went because DD has autism and needs a lot of extra reassurance/help. I was also in charge of a group of 9 pupils aged between 11 and 13.

I had two children in my group who tested my patience a lot in the first few days before they settle down and behaved. It was exhausting, left me constantly dealing with their petty behaviour while also trying to focus on the others in my group. Where we were out doing activities it was a pain having to keep an eye on just one or two children who really didn't think rules applied to them or thought that they could just refuse to take part. I had to get the lead Teacher involved by day 2 as I'd had enough. She had stern words and phone calls were made to parents.

So please think about a) how it affects the adult in charge of your child and b) how it will affect every other child if your son misbehaves, does something stupid or just generally acts like an idiot and therefore holding everyone up or ruins a day out.

Remember that all those other parents have also paid £400 and would not be impressed if one child ruined the trip for everyone else because they can't follow rules.

I’d pull him from the trip before the school does. It will have more of an impact on him (IMO) if it comes from you rather than the school.

Also second everyone querying why the behaviour.

I remember being a bit unpleasant and rude at secondary school - because I was terrified. I’d bunk off and refuse work - because I would rather not try, than fail. I certainly would act the fool sometimes, make poor friend choices. All of those were down to low self confidence. Not that it was ever spotted or dealt with, so sorry I don’t actually know the solution!

Does he have any other hobbies/attend clubs outside of school? Does he behave well at these?

Not going will have no long term consequences for him aside from learning that bad behaviour = missing out.

I can't think of a good reason for sending him. He's clearly demonstrated he's not mature enough.

I wouldn't let him go and I would stop calling his behaviour silly. Walking out of lessons, refusing to do work, getting into fights is bad behaviour not silly. Swallowing elastic bands is not silly it is bloody stupid.

Oh and it won't be long before the "justify all behaviour cause it may be mental health related" Brigade come on.

Bad behaviour, regardless of cause, is bad behaviour. Bad behaviour needs consequences.

Underlying issues are resolved/mediated by a consistent and supportive environment, not by rewarding or ignoring negative behaviour.

I would definitely not let him go. That is not silly behaviour, that is naughty, rude, disrespectful and disruptive...and dangerous. The rest of the kids won't want him on the trip if he is always causing agro, why should they have to constantly put up with him? He could do something to really injure himself trying to play the fool.
I would draw a line now and I expect you might see better behaviour in the future. It sounds like he hasn't been taught boundaries. He needs someone to draw a line in the sand. You are his parent, that person has to be you. He has to know that even the person who loves him beyond belief is telling him this string of behaviour is utterly unacceptable, not just for everyone else but for him. I'm really surprised the school is even entertaining the idea.

I work with pupils of his age and I really wish more parents would tighten up the boundaries with some of them. It's a slippery slope if he's behaving as he is and the more learning time he loses, the less chance he has of doing well in the future. You need to get on to these behaviours right away.

I worked in a school where a difficult class of 10yr olds went on a Mon-Fri residential. The school agreed to take them all, despite having reservations about a group of the boys and their poor behaviour. It was a disaster, even the centre's staff ended up in tears with the stress of having the boys there and 6 were sent home midweek.

He isn't ready to go on the trip this time, but maybe if he improves his behaviour he can go on the next one.

Just as a small aside to the main topic - I have a friend whose ASD son's behaviour she describes as him 'being silly'. Some of it is really quite severe anti-social behaviour, but she doesn't want to face up to just how differently he behaves to his peer group. Just beware of minimising your son's behaviour, OP.

Money and ‘silliness’ aside, he’s clearly not mature enough to go on a school trip where they expect 12 year olds to behave like 12 year olds. Pull him out. Stop with the ‘soft touch’ it’s clearly not helped him.

I don't think it's one or the other though is it?

I mean everyone's agreed he shouldn't go on the trip. He's a danger to himself and others .

But that doesn't mean you can't also explore the reasons behind it. He could well be a shit. Or he's lonely has no friends and people are daring him to do stuff and he's doing it in the hope these people will be his friends.

Removing from the trip on its own won't solve this. Nore needs to be explored

Poor lad. He's a 12 year old. All of them are "silly" at one time or another. All of them do daft/dangerous things.

Every time I've sent a child on a school trip they've come back home that much more appreciative of the things I do for them and that much more grown up.
If he's silly as you suggest - why deprive him of an opportunity to try to grow out of it.
Let the teachers deal with it. He will be one of many and his "sillyness" won't impress any of them. Meanwhile you get a break.

Also. some lovely people queing up to justify "punishments".
He swallowed an elastic band.
He's not going to to it again is he? He was probably quite frightened and regrets it. This is how children learn. And he won't be the first child to have done something like that either.
If you keep him in the dog house, he will learn to be a dog.Label him silly and everyone, including the child himself will think that is just the way he is and he will live up to that label.
Have you thought that excluding him from a trip for a whole week that the rest of his class is going on is actually a major major thing to do to a child? He will have to go to school on his own for a week . At 12 that is a life time.
Wny not hand out specific and appropriate repremands for things that he does, at the time he does them. This is really over the top and I think quite cruel, especially as he's got to hear about it long before the event.. effectively you are saying "in several weeks I've devised a punishment you will really dislike for a whole week snd you are the only one in the whole class who has to go through this because you are such a silly (stupid) boy." That's how he will see it.
Why not Focus on his good qualities, how him that you believe he has some and that he can make efforts to be more sensible, and maybe a break from him for a week might help you remember his good points too.

In the OP's circumstances I certainly wouldn't let him go, because he's being bratty and could get up to all sorts of dangerous stuff while away.

I doubt it will bother him much, he'll see it as a few days off school, but you'll save £400.

Swallowing an elastic band for a dare doesn't sound too awful, but walking out of class and not doing work because he doesn't like the teacher is.

Are there any better schools in the area OP? I used to behave much like your boy, although in years 10 and 11 I got my head down (as did a lot of the lads actually) and a large part of it was to do with the school. It was feral.

A trip to France AND Disneyland at 12 years old?!

The most I had was a trip to Castleton. 😮

Sorry, that was totally off the point 🙈
Is anything he's done dangerous or just silly?
I think If anyone was dangerous then absolutely pull him from it now.

If he hasn't settled into secondary school and he's acting out - could there be other issues, bullying maybe or trying to impress a girl or covering for not understanding the work?

Pull him, he needs to learn.Its gunna make you feel guilty but its the right thing to do.Start as you mean to go on with regards to behaviour :)

Hi OP;
Have you discussed with the school to see what they say, they may be able to give you a good steer as to whether they think it's likely he'll be allowed to go on the trip anyway, also does your son know you're having to make this decision, I'd be tempted to talk it through with him and explain that you're having doubts about whether he can cope with this trip, it may well be that the trip itself is causing him a level of anxiety, and talking to you might just give him an opportunity to say whether or not he actually wants to go. I agree with others that the behavior you describe is beyond 'silliness'

dont like a lesson.. I'll walk out. Refusal to do work if he thinks the teacher is horrible... He's also been getting into fights occasionally.

Is this in one particular lesson or lots? Perhaps his teacher really is horrible?
Not all teachers are good teachers or even good people.
Kids do things for a reason, I'd talk to him seriously.

As a retired teacher I bet the staff on the trip have their fingers crossed that you will make the decision to pull him out of the trip. His behaviour will have an impact on the whole class. He may be the class clown but I bet the teachers won’t be laughing.

'Let the teachers deal with it'
Really? Why the fuck should they deal with it??? They are teachers, they are not there to rectify for a lack of parenting. It is not silly behaviour, it is rude, dangerous and very stupid. What makes you think he won't do it again? He seems to have a string of very poor behaviour that it not being dealt with.

I have two teenage boys and neither of them has ever behaved like this at school. And they bloody well wouldn't if they know what is good for them! They know I am their biggest worry if they ever got into into trouble at school, its not down to the teachers to handle, I am their parent and I'm responsible. The upshot being that they are allowed to go on whatever trips they want because I trust them to be sensible and kind. FFS, this namby pamby soft touch does nothing but harm a child.

What if the op pulls him from the trip, he doesn't go, his mates have an amazing time & this plunges him into deep depression?? Sends him spiralling into horrible mental health issues

It is never the whole class on these trips at secondary school so he won't be on his own at school for a week. And why the hell should the teachers have to deal with it? They have to be responsible for a number of children 24/7 in a different country. They do not need the added hassle of somebody who walks out when he feels like it, and does stupid things.

I'd pull him from the trip and learn to toughen up a little.

Silliness is fine, children and young pre-teens get into scrapes and act like goats. But flagrantly disrespectful behaviour like his needs to be responded to; not with anger or threats but a calm, measured consequence that teaches him to think through his actions before making stupid choices.

Plunges him into a deep depression?? Madness. Maybe he'll learn to bloody behave himself. It is not good for his education or his self-esteem to continue behaving like this. Someone needs to grow a backbone for the sake of the child and teach him some manners and good behaviour.

If his behaviour improves, I'm sure there will be another trip to go on where he can have a wonderful time.