To think you can be an animal lover and eat meat?

[MyOtherUsernameisaPun]

I know I'm going to be flamed, have donned protective gear...

But I think that it's hypocritical to eat meat and claim to be an animal lover. That isn't to say meat eaters don't deeply love their pets - I fully accept that they do! But I think that in those cases they only love certain animals, not animals generally.

We know that pigs are far more intelligent than dogs. We know that cows form close social bonds with specific individuals within the herd. We know enough to confidently state that there is no reason to separate pets from any other species except that we are conventionally accustomed to doing so.

I think everyone is free to make their own choices and whether or not I approve of them is totally irrelevant. But I don't think there is any logical grounds for a meat eater to claim that they are an animal lover when they're happy for some kinds of animals to suffer and be killed.

Do we heck as like have high standards in the UK - watch Land of hope and glory on YouTube.

Look at the hog waste issue in North Carolina. It takes 14lbs of grain to produce 1lb of beef, so it's not a tired argument. Even with the "trendy super foods" or even almond milk, nothing uses more resources than a meat and dairy eating diet.

When people.say "we evolved to eat meat".

You do know we don't still live in the palaeolithic ages and we have CHOICE!

We can eat a well balanced (and often healthier) diet without animal flesh and secretions.

Veganism isn't perfect but it's the best way to try and protect animals.

A few selected animals...

A few selected animals

Eh? Care to expand on that?

A few selected animals...

I'd rather that than none at all. Like I said, it's machinery that kills mice, insects, etc. I wouldn't ever kill those animals in my home or pay to eat them like you do with any and all animals!

And as it's been pointed out to you, those animals die when harvesting plants and grains to feed to the animals that you then pay to eat! So you're doubly as guilty, except that you don't give a sh*t.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/30/dairy-scary-public-farming-calves-pens-alternatives
Read the article and then read the comments.

At the weekend we were visiting friends and dd was telling one of them all about the animals I/we have rescued Over the years - a bat, baby rabbits, hedgehogs, a squirrel, various birds, cats and a dog ( all reunited with owners, nurses back to health or sent to the wildlife centre). Friend said that she wouldn’t have a clue what to do if she saw any injured wildlife and would usher her children away and pretend she had never seen it.
She’s a vegetarian and I’m not

Hopping - does that really have anything to do with anything? I'm vegan and I've rescued pigeons, hedgehogs, a cat, mice, christ I even got a daddy long legs out of a spider web in my bathroom yesterday and the buggers creep me out no end.

ohcecelia I have to respectfully disagree that almond production, or for e.g growing soya uses fewer resources than producing British grass fed beef or lamb.

In the area we farm the cows are eating grass and drinking water that is there naturally in abundance anyway. In winter they are housed inside and eat fermented grass (silage) and drink the same spring water they were drinking outside, just diverted into a trough by a simple bit of pipe and gravity. The only additional 'resource' that goes into them is the diesel to muck them out and feed them silage every day during winter, and the diesel used over 1-2 days in summer to cut the silage.

Sheep stay outside all year round, eating grass in summer and supplemented by silage or hay in winter.

Some farmers who aren't on purely grass fed systems also use a bit of concentrated 'sheep/cow nuts' which are primarily made from waste cereal products (e.g from the breakfast cereal industry), beet and molasses. Other farmers supplement with misshapen carrots, turnips, potatoes, sugarbeet etc that are rejected/surplus to supermarkets and other industries. Some farmers if they are lucky have a supply of brewers grains which are a waste product from the beer/lager industry. Most of the time they are using a resource that would otherwise go to waste.

UK dairy does not have artificial growth hormones and antibiotics in it.

I'm not denying that there aren't issues world wide with animals in food production, but it's not really fair to apply concerns about American beef feedlots to grass fed farming systems in Britain and claim that the environmental impacts are the same.

Scrowy You could write on here about your real life experience till you're blue in the face and people still bang on about info they get on the internet about US farming practices. Just like that man in the hysterical Guardian article. Just like that woman who said that orphan lambs should not be in a shed. Our pet lambs have just been put out to grass and they have ad lib milk. They are happy and healthy. Would that woman rather the lambs were shivering in cold and wet conditions?

I think it's perfectly possible, OP. I consider myself kind to animals, but I do still eat chicken and turkey. I live close to a farm and adore the animals there. I understand that some animals must be bred for meat, others for milking purposes etc, and I trust that there is no cruelty in abattoirs, and I know realistically the world will never turn vegetarian or vegan.

I do generally refer to worldwide statistics when I'm talking about things. But then there's also the point that grass fed cows make more methane than grain fed cows so whilst they use less water, they produce more greenhouse gases.

Derxa - I've seen the standards of UK farm and a lot aren't up to scratch, but even if they were, even if the animals had a wonderful life and an unexpected, painfree death I still wouldn't eat them because I don't believe they're ours to eat.

"there is absolutely no comparison between a lion eating a gazelle for SURVIVAL and us going down to the shops for steak because we like the taste."

Err... I eat chocolate because I like the taste. I eat meat because it is nutritionally fantastic, with Vit A, B, D and K as well as copper, chromium, folic acid, iron, magnesium, potassium, selenium and zinc. And it is high quality, complete protein with high bioavailability, which contains all essential amino acids that my body needs.

It is crazy to suggest that people eat meat just because they like the taste, like they would a lollipop. Wtf

I've seen the standards of UK farm and a lot aren't up to scratch How many farms have you seen? Are you a food assurance scheme inspector?

"When people.say "we evolved to eat meat". You do know we don't still live in the palaeolithic ages and we have CHOICE!"

People say "We evolved to eat meat" because someone on this thread bizarrely claimed that people eating meat is "not natural".

Yes, we have choice. And I use that choice to eat the way that my ancestors, grandparents, and parents have always eaten - lots of meat, dairy, and vegetables + few grains.

You use that choice to eat in whatever way that suits you. I'm not judging your ways and you sure as hell don't have the right to judge mine.

HTH.

" lovely Quorn burgers"

Ermm yuck.

I eat real food, thank you very much. Not highly processed, industrial crap.

Yes I'm always a bit sceptical of people who aren't in the farming industry and claim to know lots of farmers or have visited lots of farms and therefore have an in-depth knowledge of the welfare standards in general on farms.

I am a farmer and I've visited lots of farms, but I still couldn't tell you what the inside of our nearest farming neighbour's sheds looked like from a welfare point of view on a wet winters day, or what their policy is towards orphan lambs is on a busy day in lambing time. I could make a guess based on what they say in the pub, what I see when I call round to drop off an escaped sheep or by looking over the walls during the working day but it would still just be a guess and that's for a farm and a farmer I know really well.

Unless you are a red tractor/ trading standards/ RPA inspector I can't see how the average person could possibly feel qualified to make such a general statement about welfare standards on a range of different farming types and practices countrywide.

Most of the people I know who still eat meat do it for the taste. All those things you mentioned, everything is available in a plant based diet, so if you could have a nutritious diet without hurting animals, why wouldn't you?

Well, ive seen lots of footage, watched lots of documentaries, I do vegan activism, I've been to vigils and been to slaughterhouses. The animals packed into trucks, desperate for water and sometimes gasping for air, all with a look of terror in their eyes - that's enough for me, even if I couldn't tell you what's inside every farm. 95,000 male cows were killed at birth last year in the UK, baby cows are still separated from their mothers within 36 hours. Sod your 'welfare', that's disturbing. I don't need to see inside to know that.

@PleddingWanner

I'm veggie but I don't eat dairy. I'm well aware of the dairy industry. I will eat the occasional egg from the local farm shop so wouldn't class myself as vegan.

I trust that there is no cruelty in abattoirs

Might be worth looking into this eater than taking it on trust

Rather not eater!

Well, ive seen lots of footage, watched lots of documentaries, I do vegan activism, I've been to vigils and been to slaughterhouses.

so no actual farms then?

I said already, it's not about welfare, it's that they're there in the first place. I don't need to be on a farm to understand the general practices of raising animals in this country and to be against it.

ohcelia yes I think it IS relevant
I do eat meat but I have also cared for many domestic, wild and farm animals whereas my vegetarian friend would leave an injured animal to suffer.
My point is that some meat eaters are actually greater animal lovers than vegetarians and that there are other ways of being an animal lover than just being a vegetarian