To think you can be an animal lover and eat meat?

[MyOtherUsernameisaPun]

I know I'm going to be flamed, have donned protective gear...

But I think that it's hypocritical to eat meat and claim to be an animal lover. That isn't to say meat eaters don't deeply love their pets - I fully accept that they do! But I think that in those cases they only love certain animals, not animals generally.

We know that pigs are far more intelligent than dogs. We know that cows form close social bonds with specific individuals within the herd. We know enough to confidently state that there is no reason to separate pets from any other species except that we are conventionally accustomed to doing so.

I think everyone is free to make their own choices and whether or not I approve of them is totally irrelevant. But I don't think there is any logical grounds for a meat eater to claim that they are an animal lover when they're happy for some kinds of animals to suffer and be killed.

@Birdsgottafly The slave owners (of all colours) used to and do say the same thing, because they'd decided that slaves should be content with their lot.

Of all the stupid, offensive, ignorant and repellent comments I've seen on MN, this is right up there Do you not understand that you are equating slaves with animals?

No amount of chickpeas can deal with Pernicious Anaemia in the same way a steak can. Google it. The body processes the two differently. PA is a particular problem for menstruating women.
I love animals in an abstract way, not in the same way I love my cat who I feed with meat. He's 14 and still glowing with health.

I think the truth is just that a lot of people disassociate 'meat' from what it actually is. This is what a lot of my family do.

I went veggie 15 years ago now, mainly because I do love animals and was getting really grossed out when I was eating meat and realising the reality was I had something dead in my mouth.

I know a lot of people would say we're supposed to eat meat and so on, but I just decided it wasn't for me. I'm not preachy, I would never tell people what to do, and I do cook my husband meat which I suppose is hypocritical in itself, but it's not up to me to force my decision upon him.

TooTrueToBeGood I haven't seen your user name before and briefly thought I'd posted in a state of amnesia

@UnicornRainbowColours I'm sorry but I think you're deluding yourself. I'm not saying cows are unhappy in the fields. But most animals bred for meat don't live in nice fields, do they? And endless studies have been done which show how distressing the slaughter process is for them. And what about all the other stuff that goes with it? The separation of mothers and babies, the killing of lambs at ten weeks old, the forced breeding, the overfeeding etc etc?

And finally, what about the animals who die because their habitats are destroyed to make space for grain farming? The jaguars of South America, orangutans in Asia? You can't separate your meat consumption from the effects it has on these animals.

I completely agree. The reason I gave up eating meat was because I felt hypocritical professing my love for animals (especially cows) whilst also eating them. I don’t push these opinions on anyone else, I don’t tell people what to eat and I have no issue with other people eating what they like. I do silently judge people who tell me they love animals when they eat meat though, seems a bit too selective to me. Mumsnet - and especially AIBU - is all about people and their opinions so I don’t know why people get so uppity, surely you expect it here!

@Queenoftheblitz that's why I specifically excluded those with medical conditions which require them to eat meat

That's partly the reason I became veggie. I've never felt comfortable eating meat and just did it when I was with family or DH so it was easier for them when cooking. Personally I don't see why we should force an animal to live just so we can consume after it's had a miserable life. Most people are cute and fluffy animal lovers and there is a disconnect when they eat meat.

@Queenoftheblitz but the range and quality of plant based food that is available now wasn't available then. We have access to an incredible variety of grains, pulses, nuts, fruit and vegetables. It's more than enough to allow for a complete diet where all of a person's nutritional needs are met. Eating meat is a choice, it's not required (obviously excluding anyone who might have specific illnesses requiring them to eat meat).

I've been a vegetarian and many of those grains you talk of caused me IBS symptoms that then restricted my whole life.
Going back to meat and low carb saw these symptoms disappear within a day.
I believe I eat too much meat, many people do.
But I feel no guilt for being at the top of the food chain. I have carnivore teeth for a reason.

I never preach in real life, because I accept that it would be very obnoxious. I am silently judging though but I also feel like I'm leading by example because 3 people in my family have gone veggie after discussions (instigated by them!!) with me

I love animals, I eat meat. I don't see this as being hypocritical at all - we've evolved to be omnivorous. We have the forward facing eyes of a predator, canine teeth, an inability to naturally absorb B12 from anything other than animal products, and an appendix that does fuck all.

I agree with previous posters about being concerned about animal welfare in farming - its one of the reasons I'm concerned about Brexit and a trade deal with the US.

@Queenoftheblitz unless you're killing animals yourself I don't think you get to claim that the reason it's fine for you to eat meat is that you're at the top of the food chain I also think a lion would make short work of you given half the chance, so you're probably actually a few steps at least from the top.

That said, if you have valid medical reasons for eating meat like you seem to, I think the issue is more complicated because while you probably could find meatless alternatives it would take a lot of effort and I wouldn't hold you to a higher standard than I hold myself.

I eat meat and I have no particular affection for animals. Never owned or want to own a pet. So I don't really claim to be an animal lover.

I would class us as animal lovers, despite us being farmers. I like mice and rabbits, but I don’t get cross when the cat catches them and eats them. It’s nature. And actually if he didn’t catch them, the rabbits and mice would destroy our vegetable garden, so we’d end up driving to supermarkets to buy veg instead, which would be more harmful for the environment.

And while we are apparently destroying the world by growing grain (for your cereal, not all for animal feed), we are also planting fields of pollinating plants to help bees. If nobody ate meat, there would be a much higher demand for crops instead. Stopping breeding meat won’t then mean the whole country can let the countryside become overgrown for wild animals. The fields would still need to be farmed, for the humans instead of the animals. Unless you’d rather we just import all our foods from overseas?

I don’t agree with some of the practices around meat but I also wouldn’t say I’m an animal lover. I don’t dislike animals but I don’t “love” them either. So I don’t have any issue with eating meat. If someone is vegetarian/vegan, I respect that choice but also expect them to respect mine and not preach about it. My DM is a massive dog lover and she was upset about Chinese/Koreans eating dog meat. I disagree with the way the dogs are kept/treated, but I don’t disagree with the actual eating of the meat. Just because we see them as pets doesn’t mean the whole world has to.

Tbh I think most people who claim to be animal lovers, love “cute” or what they view as “attractive” animals. Look at the extreme with rats, a lot of people hate them and view them as vermin, some others think they’re cute and keep them as pets. If someone loves animals would they never use rat poison? I think a lot would.

YANBU OP but you should have been able to predict these responses. People know this is hypocritical but they don’t like to think about it and so get defensive. As we’re seeing here.

I agree OP. It really winds me up when people claim to love animals and are happy to eat dead ones. It's the very epitome of juxtaposition- you don't kill things you love?

People can claim that they buy meat 'ethically' and if that helps them sleep better at night so be it, but I see nothing ethical about killing- whatever form it takes.

I think deep down everyone has some sense of morality when it comes to eating meat, which is why without fail every single meat eater responds with 'I hardly eat any meat, only really chicken and sometimes the odd burger if I'm out for dinner' or similar when I mention being veggie.

I couldn't care less about other people's eating habits and would never force being vegetarian upon anyone (my DH eats meat as do all of my children) I just wish people would be a bit more honest about it and admit that if they eat meat they're not that fussed about animals. It's the hypocrisy that bothers me more than anything else

@meel actually, reduction in meat consumption would lead to a massive reduction in grain - it takes 100 calories worth of grain to produce 3 calories worth of beef. So even if everyone in the world became a vegetarian there would still be a huge reduction in the required quantity of cereal crops. If one person were to skip eating meat for one day and eat only plant-based instead, they could save enough grain to feed 40 people!

I don't find it remotely hypocritical. I do, however, find it hypocritical to claim to 'love animals' and be vegetarian for that reason, yet not vegan.

But most animals bred for meat don't live in nice fields, do they?

If you eat high welfare meat then yes, a lot of your meat WILL have lived in a field. However, animals don't have to live in a Disney-fied rural idyll to have good lives - the farm next to me raises turkeys and they live in a barn. They have a good life and, just as importantly, a humane, quick and stress-free death - I know because I've seen them do it. Similarly, friends of mine raise pigs - they have the life of Riley and then they're slaughtered quickly and in a way designed to avoid stress. Having grown up around farms and farmers, I'm aware of what is involved in the slaughter of animals and what good animal husbandry looks like.

Obviously this is very different to factory farming but it IS possible to raise animals for meat humanely and ethically and I think it's great that there's a shift towards people eating less meat overall and what they do eat being of a higher welfare standard.

I get where you're coming from, OP, but you aren't going to get people to empathise with your viewpoint by lecturing them.

Whatever you be a vegetarian vegan whatever you want but don’t tell me or anyone else who eats meat they don’t love animals because it’s rubbish.

I've seen too many vegetarians with bad skin and premature ageing to be convinced to give up meat.

@Lifeaback so true - the first thing most people do when they find out I'm a vegetarian (for example because we are at a dinner) is justify their own meat consumption even though I bever ask about it. I do think it's a defensive reaction because a lot of people do feel bad about it

you don't kill things you love

I don't kill the animals I eat the meat from.

I also don't love a random cow or sheep.

I know somebody who eats meat and uses cosmetics that aren't cruelty free and preaches about animal rights. It irritates me almost as much as preachy veggies/vegans.

I'm not fussed about animals. I love meat and eat it every day and I'm happy with it.