To say no to summer holiday childcare even though she'll have to pay someone else

[CherryChasingDotMuncher]

We have a neice who is 7 (she is DH’s brother’s little girl). Over the years we have looked after her quite a lot during the school holidays or when they have no other childcare. Her parents (who have been split up for some time) are always skint, and are vocal about this, which is one of the reasons we help out.

I don’t really mind looking after her, I only work 3 days a week and my own DD (5) gets on really well with her. I was on maternity leave last year and in the summer holidays I watched her 2-3 times a week, every week. I think it’s important to point out that there has never been an offer, from either parent, to look after our DC in return. when the schools are off DD goes to holiday club for £26 a time (on top of £50 a day Nursery fees for DS).

Ex-SIL is now a student and, like BIL, terrible with money. She blew her student maintenance grant on investing in Bitcoin (after it crashed) and on designer clothes for her DD (which are now being flogged on Facebook). She asked me to look after DN in the Easter holidays, to which I said yes and did so on my days off. She wasn’t at Uni but works in retail on a casual contract so was ‘desperate’ (her words) to work and earn some money.

When she came to collect her on the last day I looked after her, she was bragging about how her parents are selling their house and giving her her inheritance early, and how she is going to take her DD on 4 holidays (including one to Dubai) and put her in private school.

She does have a form for huge exaggerations so I’m not sure if this is true or if she will get the amount she claims she will (£200k). I'm not sure when this money is falling into her lap.

She has text today asking if she can ‘book us in’ now for summer holiday childcare, and said it would be easiest to know which Mondays and Fridays (my days off) I can’t do and work it that way.

WIBU to tell her to FOTTFSOFAFOSM? This may sound petty but I don’t see why some of us should have to pay through the nose for Nursery and holiday clubs, when she apparently has all this cash to flash yet wants us for free childcare. Like I say I don’t mind looking after DN, but it’s restrictive as we have to stay in the house (rural and car not big enough for 3 car seats), I make her breakfast lunch and dinner (paid for by us) and if we do somehow make it out we pay for activities, suncream, ice lollies etc. Not a penny is ever offered (but I don't begrudge it either). Are they (I include BIL in this because, whilst Ex-SIL orchestrates it, BIL is hardly forthcoming with gratitude or help) a pair of CFs, or am I being childish?

I won’t really to her to fuck off but I do feel like replying to say sorry can’t do any childcare at all in the holidays. It hasn’t been agreed beforehand BTW, I think they've assumed because we’ve done it every year for the last 3 years, we'll do it this year.

OP - what a cheek! ‘Let you know’

She’s still expecting you to have her and will try and guilt you closer to the time

Wow, she’ll ‘let you know’. CF to the max.

Calf/Sofa

I think it's fine to ask for help. But there's a difference between asking for some help and this situation. Both BIL and SIL have been taking advantage of OP and behaving very poorly- surely you can see that?

OP's SIL has not asked for some help. She has assumed that OP will look after her daughter EVERY single day she has off for the entire holidays. Without so much as a please or a thank you! That's completely lacking in basic manners, if nothing else.

It is also too much to assume that someone has them every single day they have off, especially when that means that the person you are asking for help can not then get out and about with their own DC during the holidays- it's just not reasonable behaviour. OP has presumably reduced her income in order to spend time with her family- not to be unpaid childminder for her SIL without so much as please or a thank you.

Even if OP and her children do manage to get out to do something, neither BIL or SIL will contribute in any way at all. And no acknowledgement of the fact that they are getting her childcare free, and don't have to provide any of the 3 meals per day for their child. No offer of even a small contribution from either parent. Yet SIL can afford to buy designer clothes and invested in bit-coin? No, she chose to spend her money unwisely and now expect OP to pick up the slack in both her time (by doing free childcare) and financially (by paying for all her meals whilst with her and any trips they do). That is unreasonable behaviour.

As a full time student she should be able to access student funding for childcare, it might not cover everything but it would help. And as she is working, even as a student, she should be able to claim for the childcare of element of working tax credits, surely? Given that she wants OP to do 2 full days childcare and the OPs MIL does another day per week- that's 3 full days, which should take her over the 16 hour threshold, I would have thought. If she isn't claiming everything she entitled to, then she has been foolish. BIL is no better- he could and should offer to contribute.

Finally, OP has said she doesn't hear much from SIL in-between periods when she needs childcare. So she hears very little from her, except when she needs OP for something. That's incredibly rude and actually quite crass, especially when someone is doing you a massive favour. Add to that that there has been no reciprocity- nothing! Even if she is skint, she could do SOMETHING to help OP. Babysitting once in a while perhaps? It needn't cost her much- just have OPs DC over to play at home shouldn't be costly. Given she expect to save the cost of meals for 2 days a week for the entire school holidays, I think she could probably stretch to an extra sandwich or bowl of pasta once to twice. Or even babysitting at OPs house, so not having to provide meals. She could do something, even something small or occasional, in the way of reciprocity if she was minded to. Yet she has chosen not to.

All of the above leads me to the conclusion that OP's SIL is behaving unfairly towards OP, and has been taking advantage of OPs goodwill. Op's BIL is just as bad. And given that, it is absolutely right and fair that OP only offers the level of help which suits her, given the poor behaviour of both her BIL and SIL.

Op is tied down if she looks after this girl, the mother is taking the piss, with no thanks, no offer to pay, or to reciprocate and take op dd sometimes. Talks to op line she is talking to a chil are provider, "book us in now", Wtaf!!! That woukd really get my back up.

Problem here is with your initial text, you should have kept it concise, instead you have opened a dialogue. Stand firm on this and do not elaborate any further.

While I wouldn't say anymore to her now Cherry I think it might be no harm for DH to ensure his brother is clear on the plan too. He's leaving the ex to do the asking but he's clearly equally presumptious about the free childcare having had it so long. I'd want to be certain he'd been put in the picture.

Well done. I had my sisters son every Monday of school hols when I was on mat leave. 4 years later I'm still awaiting the favour returned!

It's a perfectly normal and reasonable request to ask for childcare, especially when they both have DDs so close in age.

Brilliant, so I can just ask the parents of similar aged children to look after mine when I’m in Work? This’ll save me loads!

Totally jacks11 agree with everything you have said.

Based on what you've posted so far @Cherry, I would have to agree with @Petulant and @Willow. You need to spell it out that you're not available to either her or BIL if they're unable to sort out alternative childcare. You are only available to look after DN on 2 individual dates in July and no other dates. No other reasons need to be given to her.
Just "As I said earlier, I'm only able to take DN on X day and Y day only. There is no need to keep me informed of any other arrangements you may be trying to sort out. Shall I take it that you want me to look after DN on those dates? One other thing, have you checked out to find out if your eligible for student credit or tax credit or some such that could help you in times like this? Talk to you soon, Cherry"
Don't over complicate things with reasons why you can't or don't want to look after DN. Keep the conversation short and to the point. Don't offer her reasons why you can't do something as she will no doubt try and turn it into a reason why you can, or should do it. She could source a car seat probably easier than a childminder so don't leave any avenue open to exploit.
Sorry this is so long

When the inevitable text asking for helo comes you are going to have to be firm.

I would tell her its all become very onesided. There is no thanks, no reciprocation and unfortunately it is very restrictive for you. You are not willing to do it any more and in particular being lined up like it's your obligation has worn you down. Everyone else, including you has to use holiday clubs. And both parents have to step up.

Wow to the 'I'll let you know'.

She's opening the door to coming back with 'sorry couldn't sort anything out, please have her'

You need to be very firm. 'Nothing to let us know about! Good luck with sorting something else out'.

well done OP smile and wave lol

The fact is that when a family member helps out with childcare it delays the shock that people experience when paying for childcare . Then they get used to having it done for them and they don't want to have to pay unless they absolutely have to. Nothing will force this issue unless you say no now.

My cousin got into just this kind of situation with her sister-in-law. After providing a years with the free childcare (3 days a week in school time!!!). Completely unthanked and unpaid and never reciprocated. When she put her foot down and said no more her brother and sil were really awful to her. At that point she just decided to stick it out and refused to do it for them. Having brought it up it was just easier to keep going with the refusal than it was to get back in to a very onerous obligation.

Yep, the ‘I'll let you know’ means she still thinks you’re her back up plan.

Just text back, ‘Thats kind of you, but really, no need xx’

Yeah the car seat line was a mistake. She will think that if she can find a booster that fits your car you will have to change your mind.

OP, I empathise. I am also related to a couple of CFs. In my case DB and SIL. Nothing they do surprises me anymore, their level of entitledness is at times breath-taking and the degree of self-centredness never ceases to amaze me. They rarely say thank you or even acknowledge that you have done something to help them. And they never offer to help in any way.

I now occasionally do things if I want to and it isn't too much of an inconvenience, or as a favour to our parents. Otherwise, I politely decline. And then stand firm, ignoring the bleating and the moaning, whining and attempts to guilt trip me- I also ignore their rudeness when they don't get their own way. It still irritates me, occasionally really makes me cross, but I find just doing anything on my own terms is the best way to minimise it. Occasionally, I will pointedly say something like "you're welcome, BTW", but it never makes much difference.

I will continue to help in an emergency- although given a few episodes of crying wolf recently, I am not sure how long I will continue to believe their "emergencies" are real.

OP, if she hadn't bragged about coming into an early inheritance, would you have been happy to help out?

I think you need to keep your responses to her very brief in future. If you waffle on too much, give explanations etc, she will find a way to wriggle her way in. You can still be nice and polite though, eg:

Sorry, that just doesn't work for us.
Sorry, it's really not convenient.
No, can't do it, sorry.

Also, don't feel pressured to reply. When she wrote this...

Ah right. That screws it a bit for me as I won't be able pick up any shifts on Mondays and Fridays. But yes if you could take her those 2 days please that would be grand. I've looked at that link for DS Nursery and there's absolutely no way I can afford £26 a day how is that reasonably priced!

... there was no need for you to reply at all - doing so opened you up to more discussion and explanation.

Don't get drawn any further into suggesting alternatives.

You need to treat carefully, but if she persists, you could flag up the prospect of reciprocal childcare in the summer, one day from them in return for the 2 days you've offered. You've done tonnes to help, it's not pissy to ask for a single day back. (A) it might make her run a mile and (b) I think it's a truism that if people never give a favour they receive, they sometimes completely fail to appreciate it. Some nondrivers are really grateful for lifts, others take them for granted because they don't experience the cost, effort and time of driving.

OP, if she hadn't bragged about coming into an early inheritance, would you have been happy to help out?

Yes probably. But it annoyed me that day as we had to pay for DD to be in holiday club 2 days that week, so after both kids were in childcare it meant I was working those days for about £10 (yes we have DH's salary too which is more than what I earn but it just goes to show how working can be financially pointless with kids), I'd had DN 2 days for nothing and she came in boasting about her (supposed) wealth and I felt like a total mug. I felt that way again today when she text. We have looked after DN on the understanding that there was no other choice and times were desperate and I feel like we've been taken advantage of, and even though they now can afford childcare, they still want to use us to score a freebie.

If she hadn't bragged/talked about her investments etc I'd have been none the wiser and assumed she was still on the breadline. BIL also pleads poverty but he's a gardener in a steady job, I don't believe for a second he can't afford £26 a day (we've just paid a bloody fortune for our small garden to be paved and flattened so I'm not having that they're low earners!). But why would he when muggins here does it for free?

Sorry, I'm blathering, blame the Aldi wine

I think your responses have been very good Cherry, but (like others), I don't think you've heard the last of this one. I think she'll be back.

If this was me, I wouldn't really care about the bitcoin and the designer clothes - that's her choice and her business. It's the lack of thanks and lack of offers to reciprocate that would upset me and make me need to change the status quo.

I'm sorry your wine hasn't worked out well.

There was a response suggested very early on, which I REALLY liked, because it was so honest:
It was from hooochycoo
We do love DN and have agreed to have her the last couple of years because DD enjoys her company. And also because as family we were keen to help when you have been in difficult financial circumstances and struggled to afford childcare
However your financial circumstance have obviously changed and additionally we are feeling a bit taken for granted
Having DN so regularly keeps us housebound and costs us money ( for 3 meals a day) for a large portion of the holidays , but you have never offered any money for expenses nor have you ever offered to have our DD in return
We thought it was wise to let you know how we’re feeling to give you the chance to talk about it. We’d still love to spend time with DN, but as loved and respected family , not as unpaid, taken for granted child. Hopefully now you can afford childcare, we can talk and find a way to make the relationship more reciprocal and arrange some play dates and sleepovers and days out for both girls. We would like that

I loved this, apart from the money stuff, which I'd take out.
We do love DN and have agreed to have her the last couple of years because DD enjoys her company. And also because as family we were keen to help when you have been in difficult circumstances.

However we are feeling a bit taken for granted.

Having DN so regularly keeps us housebound and costs us money ( for 3 meals a day) for a large portion of the holidays , but you have never offered any money for expenses nor have you ever offered to have our DD in return.

We thought it was wise to let you know how we’re feeling to give you the chance to talk about it. We’d still love to spend time with DN, but as loved and respected family , not as unpaid, taken for granted child. Hopefully now we can talk and find a way to make the relationship more reciprocal and arrange some play dates and sleepovers and days out for both girls. We would like that

sorry x posted with you. I hadn't realized the extent that the money DOES bother you. Ignore the second half of my post!