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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think DD wasn’t unreasonable not to give up reserved seat?

408 replies

jasminajasminda · 06/05/2018 11:26

Dd17 was getting the train from London to Edinburgh yesterday to visit her sister at uni (she’s just finished her internal school year 12 exams, and lessons don’t start again until Wednesday).

We obviously reserved her a seat. She arrived, got on the train, and sat down in her seat. The train was very busy, and a few minutes after the train started moving, a middle aged woman with a walking stick, having apparently wandered through several carriages (dd was in the front carriage) without finding a seat, looked around dd’s Carriage, then came up to her and asked her to move as she needed a seat (pointedly making a big deal of her walking stick). When dd pointed out that she had reserved that seat, and there was no way she was giving up her seat on a four hour train journey, the woman told her that she was young, and therefore didn’t need a seat as much as she did.

At this dd put on her headphones, and listened to music and ignored her. The woman eventually huffed and left the carriage. Dd said that she noticed a few other passengers giving her (dd) dirty looks throughout the journey.

Was dd being unreasonable?

OP posts:
Saltcrust · 07/05/2018 13:13

I fail to see how a middle-aged woman who is reliant on a stick to help her mobility, making a request of an able-bodied 17 year old girl, can be construed as bullying?

Otterseatpuffinsdontthey · 07/05/2018 13:17

@Doje
On the subject of "assumptions" - go back and read the original post/2nd paragraph/last sentence.
@jasminajasminda
I hope your daughter has a lovely time, in Edinburgh, with her sister. It's a beautiful city Flowers

leggere · 07/05/2018 13:19

Harassment then?

leggere · 07/05/2018 13:28

I'm sick and tired of the few disabled people who give the rest of us a bad name. I use a walking stick and I'm ill. In this situation, I would have asked the nearest adult this "I don't have a seat and I can't stand. Would you mind finding a staff member for me please, for assistance? Thankyou so much". And that's it!

Otterseatpuffinsdontthey · 07/05/2018 13:31

@Saltcrust
As the 17 year old was actually sitting, how did the other individual know she was able-bodied? Also, young woman could've been pregnant.

Polarbearflavour · 07/05/2018 13:32

The train manager / rail station staff really should be more helpful and anticipate customer needs. I’ve been escorted to a seat before without asking when wearing a baby on board badge by a customer service assistant!

I would be very surprised if the train manager hadn’t helped the lady to a first class seat rather than leave her to stand.

Doje · 07/05/2018 13:34

@Otterseat, I think it's a fair assumption that a 17 year old doesn't need a seat as much as someone with a walking stick.

If the 17yr old did have a hidden disability, they could have then said so.

Otterseatpuffinsdontthey · 07/05/2018 13:38

@Doje
So, now you're making assumptions then.

Scabetty · 07/05/2018 13:41

If you need a seat reserve one in advance. Maybe lady carries a walking stick to get priority treatment. Fact is 17 yo was sitting in her reserved seat. Head phones in was good tactic.

expatinscotland · 07/05/2018 13:42

It's not everyone else's job to find someone a seat.

Saltcrust · 07/05/2018 13:43

Otterseat I was just going to reply the same as Doje has done. Presumably the 17 yr old is capable of speech and capable of explaining politely if she has any special needs? The same could be said of anyone the lady asked anyway! Absolutely everyone in the carriage could have had a hidden disability and all the women in the carriage could have been pregnant - but the likelihood is that they didn't and weren't - and the likelihood is that an able bodied 17 yr old can manage better without a seat (for an hour max perhaps as other seats become available) than someone who requires a stick to walk. It's common sense surely?

Doje · 07/05/2018 13:46

@Otterseat, no, I'm using common sense.

Saltcrust · 07/05/2018 13:55

Scabbety how about not automatically assuming that everyone who uses a walking stick is on the make? Yes, she might have been, but equally she might not. Personally, I would prefer to give someone who is visibly more fragile than me, and who is asking for help, the benefit of the doubt.

Leggere yes that would have been a the ideal way to handle it. But as everyone else is making assumptions, how about I assume that perhaps the lady in question was feeling stressed, confused, unsure, worried, desperate even? It's not beyond the realms of possibility is it? My late father (usually very quiet and gentle) used to sound quite abrupt sometimes when he was stressed or in pain.

If we are all going to make assumptions how about trying to think well of others, instead of always assuming the worst?

Candyflosss · 07/05/2018 14:06

Your daughter is just unlucky to be in this situation but I would be proud of my dc if they offered the seat to someone who needs it more even if it is reserved seat.

HoppingPavlova · 07/05/2018 14:14

I’ve jumped in after 15 pages so it may well have been covered but if the woman had mobility issues and required a seat why would she have not bothered to reserve one? Why is it then someone else’s problem?Seems a bit like planes where some Wally will come on, claim that they can’t sit in the seat they have been assigned (yet they never bothered to book/pay for a seat that would suit them) and try and get everyone else to shuffle round to their satisfaction.

leggere · 07/05/2018 14:25

In that case Saltcrust, the lady could have said to the nearest adult "sorry to bother you, I'm feeling quite ill and confused. Would you mind getting me some help, please?" I've done this before, no problem!

Otterseatpuffinsdontthey · 07/05/2018 14:32

@Doje
No, you're using double standards.

Doje · 07/05/2018 14:39

@Otterseat you know what, assumption & common sense are probably the same thing so I'll give you that. However from the two assumptions

  1. Middle aged lady picks on teen bacause she thinks a 17 year girl will most likely be pressured into giving up her seat.

and

  1. Lady with walking stick less able to stand than 17 year old girl.

I personally think 1) is far fetched and 2) is probable.

BigPinkBall · 07/05/2018 14:45

At the end of the day it wasn’t the dds problem to solve, the lady asked for her seat, she had reserved is specifically because she was going on a four hour journey so declined to give it up, the lady needed to move on at that point and find a member of staff to help her.

It was not the dds problem to solve, some people may be happy to put other people’s comfort before their own but on a four hour train journey I think it’s reasonable to not want to give up your seat.

Otterseatpuffinsdontthey · 07/05/2018 14:47

@Saltcrust
There is real mix of assumptions, presumptions, pendancy, entitlement and double-standards on this thread.
We know, for a fact, that individual with the walking-stick was capable of speech - so, perhaps she should have sought the assistance of a member of the train staff regarding the issue of her not having a seat.

deplorabelle · 07/05/2018 15:02

I have given up train seats in the past but I've also had one experience which I can't be sure about but I think was someone trying to gaslight me out of a seat. It was an international reservation only train so everyone should have had a seat but the woman informed me I was sitting in her 15 year old son's seat. I showed her my booking and she showed me hers and was told all about how they'd travelled from a third country and it was a long journey blah blah blah

There was no way I was going to move. She was a native speaker in the country we were in and I had a two year old on her lap. I repeatedly suggested she talk to train staff but they melted away at the sight of train staff so I concluded there was something fishy about their fare or ticket.

Another guy gave up his seat instead and ended up standing when some passengers got on at an intermediate station. He made a huge passive aggressive fuss about how he'd been kind and had ended up without a seat as a result and somehow the disapproval was directed at ME throughout the journey for this guy having to stand.

It was very unpleasant and I'm sure there was dishonest behaviour at the root of it. It is most likely that the disabled lady was acting honestly but I would say based on my experience it could have been someone trying to take advantage

deplorabelle · 07/05/2018 15:03

2 y old on my

deplorabelle · 07/05/2018 15:04

Ffs 2 year old on my lap

Otterseatpuffinsdontthey · 07/05/2018 15:11

@Doje
You've used the term "common sense" in your last 2 posts.
Do you, personally think, it would be common sense for someone, with a mobility issue, to reserve a seat, on what is normally a busy train, on a Bank Holiday?
Simple "yes" or "no" will suffice.

jedediah · 07/05/2018 15:11

Clearly, the lady needed a seat.

But so did the OP's dd. She was going to be there for 4 hours. It wasn't the dd's fault that that lady didn't have a seat. It wasn't her responsibility to solve the lady's problems and go and find the train staff.

It was the train company's responsibility to find the lady a seat. She shouldn't have singled out a 17 year old girl to ask for her seat, when she has no idea how much that girl needed a seat or how long she would be on the train.