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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think DD wasn’t unreasonable not to give up reserved seat?

408 replies

jasminajasminda · 06/05/2018 11:26

Dd17 was getting the train from London to Edinburgh yesterday to visit her sister at uni (she’s just finished her internal school year 12 exams, and lessons don’t start again until Wednesday).

We obviously reserved her a seat. She arrived, got on the train, and sat down in her seat. The train was very busy, and a few minutes after the train started moving, a middle aged woman with a walking stick, having apparently wandered through several carriages (dd was in the front carriage) without finding a seat, looked around dd’s Carriage, then came up to her and asked her to move as she needed a seat (pointedly making a big deal of her walking stick). When dd pointed out that she had reserved that seat, and there was no way she was giving up her seat on a four hour train journey, the woman told her that she was young, and therefore didn’t need a seat as much as she did.

At this dd put on her headphones, and listened to music and ignored her. The woman eventually huffed and left the carriage. Dd said that she noticed a few other passengers giving her (dd) dirty looks throughout the journey.

Was dd being unreasonable?

OP posts:
UserV · 07/05/2018 11:46

@jasminajasminda

Your daughter was perfectly entitled to keep her seat. How dare the woman think she should be entitled to take someone's seat, and a young person refusing to give it up is 'in the wrong...?!' For all that woman knew, your daughter could have had a disability, or a condition that made it hard for her to stand for long periods.

Me and my kids have given up our train seats for people before - elderly, pregnant, and a woman with a toddler who was standing in the aisle with the child in her arms.... But on every occasion, we have had 20-30 minutes or so to go on our journey. (And we were all able bodied and fit...) No way though, would we have given up the seats if we had had a 4-5 hour train journey.

The woman in question needs to think ahead next time, and book herself a bloody seat, and yeah, the poster was right (on page 1) that the other people tutting and huffing and puffing, could have easily given up their seats!

OP, your daughter did nothing wrong. Good for her for standing her ground, and not being bullied by entitled middle aged people who think they have the right to treat a young person like shit, and the young person must be in the wrong JUST because they are a generation older than them!

To the people saying the OP's daughter was rude and mean etc..... why?

WHY was she rude and mean? She did not have to give up her seat, she did NOT have to engage any further, the woman COULD have asked other people - but didn't, and she was only middle-aged - not OLD. And no, the girl DIDN'T have to go and 'find the guard' for the woman, and she is NOT a bad person for not doing so! Christ-on-a-bike, there are some cheeky fucking 'entitled' individuals on this thread! Hmm

I agree wholeheartedly with the posters saying she picked on a teen girl because she thought she could be bullied. She was wrong, and as I said, good for the girl for not allowing it to happen, and ignoring this rude woman.

@Stirner

The people that are saying they would be "ashamed" if their kids did the same need to take a long hard look at their priorities.

If you teach your children to roll over like that you're setting them up for a life of being tread on by others at the best. This is especially true if you have daughters.

This! Shame on the posters for saying the OP should be ashamed of her daughter. I salute the strong assertive young woman, who refused to be bullied by a middle aged woman. GOOD FOR HER!

Doje · 07/05/2018 11:50

I'm genuinely shocked by the responses on this post.

Hell yes, she was being unreasonable. For whatever reason, the older lady hadn't booked a seat. However, your daughter was much more able to stand, or sit in an aisle/vestibule for the journey, that the older lady was. She was also more able to walk and look for a guard to see if there was any available seats.

I'd have given up my seat in a heartbeat, and if I was in that carriage and seen your daughter do that, I'd have offered the lady my seat.

Sunnymeg · 07/05/2018 11:54

I would have asked the woman why she hadn't reserved a seat. Anyone can do that. Your daughter bought her seat and reserved it. She is completely within her rights to use her reserved seat. The other person's actions have no bearing on this. I say this as a disabled person. If I travel by train, I understand that it is my responsibiity and my decision about whether or not I reserve a seat has no impact on anyone else. Anyone who doesn't reserve a seat especially on a Bank Holiday weekend , shouldn't expect to have one.

Saltcrust · 07/05/2018 11:58

Well said Doje

How horrible it must be to carry around with you a world view that everyone is on the make, taking the Michael, trying to screw you out of something (especially someone who needs a stick with which to walk).

I wouldn't care if the lady hadn't bothered to book, or she was cheeky, or whatever low motivations others have ascribed to her; I would prefer to give her the benefit of the doubt and do the decent thing rather than there being a possibility that I was sitting in a seat that a less able bodied person needed more than me.

Even worse that parents would applaud their children for having the "bravery" to be unkind.

sashh · 07/05/2018 12:00

Tip for your daughter.

If you have a reserved seat the train company HAS to find you one.

Don't offer the seat, go to the toilet, when you come back and woman is in seat ask her to move, when she doesn't you head to first class - there are always staff in 1st class and it is easier for them to sit you there than go and argue about the seat.

But no she was not being unreasonable.

UserV · 07/05/2018 12:00

@Dojo

I'd have given up my seat in a heartbeat, and if I was in that carriage and seen your daughter do that, I'd have offered the lady my seat.

YAY good for you!

Give yourself a massive round of applause. 🙄🙄🙄

To think DD wasn’t unreasonable not to give up reserved seat?
Saltcrust · 07/05/2018 12:01

And fhs everyone, please read the thread.

There have been a thousand instances recounted below where elderly people have taken the trouble to book and the train has been cancelled or the timetable has been changed at the last minute due to unforeseen circumstances. Also, sometimes, as has been stated many many times, people sometimes in an emergency need to travel urgently on the same day.

Saltcrust · 07/05/2018 12:03

What a nasty cynical post UserV. What is the point of posting just to be nasty?

Pengggwn · 07/05/2018 12:05

UserV

Shame on you for co-opting James Van der whatever his name is into your nastiness!

expatinscotland · 07/05/2018 12:06

'Another poster attempted to excuse the girl's rudeness and her selfishness on the basis of her age. I do not accept that this is valid.'

It's a matter of opinion, Penn. Some people see it as rude and selfish, others don't.

UserV · 07/05/2018 12:08

To all the virtue signallers on this thread, who think the OP's daughter was SUCH a 'horrible little girl' for not giving up her seat for the POOR OLD LADY.... I ask you this......

Do you have anything to say about the fact that the POOR OLD LADY did not ask anyone else to give up their seat? ONLY this one teen girl!

Yeah I thought not! Hmm

People like you make me sick, and it's people like you that make the lives of young people hard, with how you think it's OK to talk to them like they are a piece of dirt because you know, you are OLDER, and have more 'rights..' Hmm

Also you will never challenge anyone you know will probably tell you to piss off. (Like someone nearer your age or older,) and all you can do is pick on young teens. Fucks me right off!!! SHAME on you all! Hmm

expatinscotland · 07/05/2018 12:08

So many bandying about shame. Meh. You'd think the daughter ate babies.

Pengggwn · 07/05/2018 12:08

expatinscotland

I know, which is why I said I don't accept her age as an excuse for what I perceive to be her rude and selfish behaviour.

Doje · 07/05/2018 12:16

@UserV, maybe she was a bit shocked that the one person she felt she could approach, had been so rude to her that she didn't want to ask again.

Old people can be intimidated too.

UserV · 07/05/2018 12:19

She wasn't OLD FFS Hmm She was MIDDLE AGED! (I was being sarcastic!)

Stop making excuses for this entitled, middle aged woman who felt it was OK to bully a teen, but was too cowardly to pick on anyone else!

The girl did NOTHING wrong.

Doje · 07/05/2018 12:25

She didn't bully her! She asked if she could have her seat because she needed one!

Otterseatpuffinsdontthey · 07/05/2018 12:25

@UserV 11.46 post
Whole thread. Nutshell.

Otterseatpuffinsdontthey · 07/05/2018 12:39

@Doje
From a whole train carriage, with all the seats occupied, the individual selected a 17 year old girl to relinquish her seat - it's bullying - you, and others, can dress it up any way you like.

halfwitpicker · 07/05/2018 12:44

Your DD WNBU.

Doje · 07/05/2018 12:49

We have no idea why the DD was picked. Maybe she looked the friendliest, maybe she was the only one who wasn't in a group/had kids/a laptop already plugged in, maybe she had a bright yellow top on and caught the eye of the lady. Maybe she'd tried three middle aged men in the last carriage who all said no so she though she'd try a younger person who just might have better manners! @Otterseat, you're making assumptions, that I think are unfair.

leggere · 07/05/2018 12:59

The dd reserved her seat. The right thing! She stayed in her reserved seat. The right thing! She explained to the lady that she was in her reserved seat. The right thing! The lady continued to ignore, so dd put her headphones in. The right thing! Where's the problem?

Otterseatpuffinsdontthey · 07/05/2018 13:03

@Doje
Could debate this all day - think we'll have to agree to disagree.
Just a thought - how do bullies decide on a target? What's their logic?

leggere · 07/05/2018 13:09

If it isn't bullying, then it's harassment! One of the two?

Morphene · 07/05/2018 13:09

These trains have priority seats that aren't reserved.
The woman should have asked someone sitting in a priority seat to move.

What the ops DD might have done was to stand till the conductor came past and then point out that she had been turfed out of her reserved seat by someone that needed the conductors help in finding a seat.

But tbh I think she did fine as she was. Anyone giving a dirty look rather than giving their own seat is a massive hypocrite.

Sunnymeg · 07/05/2018 13:13

If there is a problem with a reserved seat on a cancelled train and you end up travelling at a different time , you speak to the train's staff. It is not the responsibility of fare paying passengers to sort out the problem. I have had to do this before on a couple of occasions. Train staff are usually extremely helpful.