To think you're not allowed to be a feminist on MN if you believe in trans rights?

[EyeRollChampion]

Seems like every post in the feminism category atm is so vehemently anti-trans rights and that anyone who disagrees with this standpoint is ganged up on and ridiculed.

Or 'aren't I brave posting the same viewpoint as the overwhelming majority? I will not be silenced! (Now tell me how amazing and inspirational I am)'

I will probably be told I'm not a good feminist for believing we should respect the gender people identify with. Identity is of no importance to equal rights or mental health, of course. And they're a minority so who cares? Because changing room horror.

I'll get flamed for this because apparently this is not a view you're allowed to hold on mumsnet, TRA (aka anyone who isn't against trans rights) are the enemy of all women and trying to deny free speech.

Tell me I'm not alone?

'And they're a minority so who cares? Because changing room horror'

Rather a reductive argument. Makes me wonder if you ever even thought about the issue at all.

You don't get respect for people by insulting those who don't agree with everything that they say. Isn't that stating the bleeding obvious?

I'm not sure I've seen anyone say anything blatantly disrespectful to trans people on this thread. I see pretty much universal agreement that trans people should be respected and have rights.

I'm genuinely interested to know exactly what has been said that has been transphobic or disrespectful here. All I see is calm and reasoned debate.

blatantly disrespectful to trans people,.

I've been told I should be raped with a bat wrapped in barbed wire and they would love to rape me while making my children watch and then slit my throat.

Women have been told trans would love to film them being raped with a "girldick" and having their head cut off to be used to fellate a "clitty".

Women have had to move house and get protection because TRAs have given their address details and have sicked the dogs on them and their children.

Women have lost their jobs and been shut up for daring to say men can't be women.

YABVU.
Giving away everything women have had to fight for is forcing the next 3 or 4 generations of women to fight the same battles all over again.

Petition to Tell San Francisco Public Library to Remove Exhibit of Weapons Intended to Kill Feminists;
www.change.org/p/tell-san-francisco-public-library-to-remove-exhibit-of-weapons-intended-to-kill-feminists

Do let us know when women produce a similar exhibit threatening violence towards trans men and women.

@Idontdowindows that's beyond disgusting. Male aggression coupled with a very sick disturbed mind.

@MaryMcCarthy what is wrong with you

Exactly!
Until I found MN, I always thought of feminists as the "burn your bra brigade" from the 60s.

Now I see that women just want their long fought for rights to be protected and safeguarded for their DDs and their DGDs.

I have no problem with transwomen who have gone through the transition process as it stands now.

(By transition I do mean physical transition)

There is a reason that penises should not be allowed in women only spaces and to allow someone to self ID and abuse our spaces is so wrong.

When I tried to tell my Mum about Danielle Muscato, she said "don't be ridiculous there is no way a man like that could live in a woman's hostel, you have misunderstood"

She also said once she realised "if this is happening, why aren't we being told about it?"

So many people do not have a clue about self ID and the impact it could have on everyday people.

Self-id will remove the medical requirement currently needed to change gender.

So maybe it’s an NHS cost cutting exercise by Tories so do away with having to provide medicalised services and mental health support?

So people who genuinely feel they are suffering can be denied NHS help, but could I guess go private/go abroad/have no mental health care?

There won’t be any specialised health services, because they haven’t been fought for. Go to the well women clinic and they’ll check your prostate I guess?

Apparently all the ‘woke’ energy goes into fighting a bunch of women on a parenting website because that is where the real problem lies 🙄

Insecure silly little girls scared that increased rights and respect for one group somehow diminishes their own rights. Grow up
Excuse me???

When you send your 8 YO DD into a female changing room (at swimming) and she tells you that she is scared because a man with a penis is standing naked in there, what do you expect to happen??

A) Swimming pool staff remove man and apologise profusely to you and your DD.

B) Swimming pool staff inform you that man self IDs as a woman and has as much right to be there as your 8 YO DD

I believe the in the right of someone, anyone, to shape their own identity. Some men identify as women and vice versa. Identity is crucial to psychological well-being and I don't think anyone should be denied that. Apparently lots of people do.

Is it not ironic that so many feminists are judging what someone else should or shouldn't be allowed to do solely on what sexual organs they possess?

The mumsnet feminism board isn't really a place for debate, it's more of an echo chamber.

OP Are you going to debate the points raised or offer your own solution?

It's just I get a bit worried when an OP starts a thread like this and then only occasionally comments reasserting a view rather than debating the counter arguments.

It is almost as if someone is posting a thread, then sitting back waiting for one poster out of 50 (or 100s) to say something that can be misconstrued, for it then to be pounced on here or elsewhere as transphobic. Rather than seeing the vast majority of posts who are clearly saying that self-id has a number of issues and that biological women's views need to be considered and taken into account.

I suspect within three months there won’t be any trans discussion on MN at all, which will be a shame because the reasonable talk has been drowned out by a handful of very vociferous, obsessive posters.

The hyperbole on both sides of this is ridiculous with fear mongering taking over from reasoned debate.

Peaking over the fence at Twitter, the misogyny is awful. Looking in the backyard here and there is a lot of transphobia, which has got really bad over the last few days. Evidence? There are more holes in most trans threads than your average pin cushion.

Of course people can identify how they wish, however that doesn't mean to say other people should be forced to agree with them or to welcome their groups and spaces.
OP how would you feel if an adult decides to identify as a child? Do you think everyone should have to pretend they really are a child and therefore that person can go to school with children, be a patient on a children's ward, play with other (real) children unsupervised, get changed for swimming in the same changing room as real children, etc etc.

" s it not ironic that so many feminists are judging what someone else should or shouldn't be allowed to do solely on what sexual organs they possess? "

oh please, save us the home-grown sophistry.

Insecure silly little girls scared that increased rights and respect for one group somehow diminishes their own rights. Grow up.

Apart from the fact that you can't understand the issue at all if you don't recognise that there's a conflict of 'rights' here, calling feminist women you disagree with 'silly little girls' really tells us all we need to know about your level of engagement with the debate.

I'm sure the same was said about women who wanted to vote, once.

What's wrong with using cubicles in places like changing rooms and toilets? It's a willy, not a freaking assault rifle.

Giving away everything women have had to fight for is forcing the next 3 or 4 generations of women to fight the same battles all over again
Maybe that is the plan??

'it's a willy, not an assault rifle'

listen , women only spaces are there for a reason. Now, what on earth do you think that could be?

There are more holes in most trans threads than your average pin cushion.

When comments like 'Bless' and 'Yawn' get deleted, that's hardly surprising. Not evidence of transphobia, though.

OP you brought up changing rooms, so do you think they should all be mixed sex? If not, why not?

It is almost as if someone is posting a thread, then sitting back waiting for one poster out of 50 (or 100s) to say something that can be misconstrued, for it then to be pounced on here or elsewhere as transphobic.

Gosh, is it??

Maybe we should all just refer to "men" - while I'm sure some "men" would object to us saying, for example, that they shouldn't be in women's shelters, there are lots of them but they aren't that organised so they won't complain as much.

Noeffingidea, you're comparing gender ID with abnormal psychology. What the what.

What's wrong with using cubicles in places like changing rooms and toilets? It's a willy, not a freaking assault rifle
You don't have daughters do you?

Not all changing rooms have cubicles so are you honestly saying that one man's right to be in the female space is more important than every woman's right to be in there??