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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think you're not allowed to be a feminist on MN if you believe in trans rights?

700 replies

EyeRollChampion · 03/05/2018 10:54

Seems like every post in the feminism category atm is so vehemently anti-trans rights and that anyone who disagrees with this standpoint is ganged up on and ridiculed.

Or 'aren't I brave posting the same viewpoint as the overwhelming majority? I will not be silenced! (Now tell me how amazing and inspirational I am)'

I will probably be told I'm not a good feminist for believing we should respect the gender people identify with. Identity is of no importance to equal rights or mental health, of course. And they're a minority so who cares? Because changing room horror.

I'll get flamed for this because apparently this is not a view you're allowed to hold on mumsnet, TRA (aka anyone who isn't against trans rights) are the enemy of all women and trying to deny free speech.

Tell me I'm not alone?

OP posts:
drspouse · 03/05/2018 11:20

it's self ID that many people (including trans people) object to.
Well, that, and giving experimental hormones and hormone blockers to children.

I'd be interested to hear what rights us mean feminists are taking away from transpeople?

Me too. Details please.

elQuintoConyo · 03/05/2018 11:21

Hogwash!

FourFriedChickensDryWhiteToast · 03/05/2018 11:21

who is 'opposed to trans rights'?

Everybody has the right to not be attacked or insulted. Who is denying that? oh right, yes nobody.

Branleuse · 03/05/2018 11:23

well i am a massive feminist and i also believe Trans people should have human rights to live free of persecution and violence, just as i do any person, male or female. If you are centring your feminism around male peoples rights to redefine womanhood and allow male bodied people to identify as women and access womens safe spaces and protected positions, without any form of gatekeeping or transition or effort, then im not sure what on earth you ever thought feminism was about, because that aint it.

Original poster
EyeRollChampion · 03/05/2018 11:24

Self ID is the legal trans right that is being 'debated''.

I don't think it's all black and white. I think it's something we need to be discussing as a society to find a solution that means women's rights to safety are not compromised by trans rights to identify in a way they can live with and vice versa.

Instead most posts seem to be accusing anyone seeking a solution to both of not supporting women's rights, as has already happened here. All very knee-jerk and phobic sounding.

Of course I don't seek permission to call myself a feminist, my point was that people are getting told they aren't just for not being vehemently against self ID.

OP posts:
HesterShaw · 03/05/2018 11:27

You have completely and seemingly wilfully missed the point.

It's perfectly obvious that the concern on MN is for trans "rights" coming at the expense of women and girls. There have been countless examples to illustrate this for you.

No one is against anyone having any rights as long as it doesn't mean that the hard-fought rights of females suffer. And men saying they are women DOES trample on those rights.

drwitch · 03/05/2018 11:27

I don't think it's all black and white. I think it's something we need to be discussing as a society to find a solution that means women's rights to safety are not compromised by trans rights to identify in a way they can live with and vice versa

you just gave the mission statement of a women's place (the so called transphobic hategroup)

BroomstickOfLove · 03/05/2018 11:27

I think YANBU, Eyeroll.

Crinkle77 · 03/05/2018 11:29

Do we have to have this discussion again?

Metoodear · 03/05/2018 11:30

It’s about woman’s rights

And not being made to support a lie when the facts don’t match

Someone has gmtge right to be trans they have the right not to be attacked

But someone with a penis and testis and a Adam’s apple is a man and I should have to be made to

Share my spaces with him no matter how much he stamps his feet and says he’s a women to

For example I have the right to be be searched by a female police officer I believe either in the van or at the station they can conduct intermate searches

How will that pan out if a male police officer can id as female officers 🤔

Original poster
EyeRollChampion · 03/05/2018 11:31

I'm not dismissing anyone's views out of hand, but it does seem anyone who doesn't necessarily agree with you gets poorly used.

And the number of times some post has been blatantly disrespectful to trans people, quite aside from any salient argument, and has been greeted with no criticism whatsoever, is frankly quite saddening.

OP posts:
zzzzz · 03/05/2018 11:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Scabbersley · 03/05/2018 11:32

Self ID is the legal trans right that is being 'debated''

Self id isn't a right.

ghostyslovesheets · 03/05/2018 11:33

as has already happened here. All very knee-jerk and phobic sounding

on this thread? where?

also can you answer the question asked about 5 times now

I'd be interested to hear what rights us mean feminists are taking away from transpeople

PersianCatLady · 03/05/2018 11:33

I'm a very bog standard wife and mum. I vote Labour and help in a homeless shelter. I have a job, three teenagers. I'm menopausal. I am neither extreme nor obsessed, nor alt-right
In the nicest possible way @Scabbersley, you are an average, everyday woman like millions of other women and like many women on MN.

For someone to say that women like us are alt-right and extreme is plain ridiculous.

KatherinaMinola · 03/05/2018 11:33

Of course I don't seek permission to call myself a feminist, my point was that people are getting told they aren't just for not being vehemently against self ID.

Who has told you that, Eyeroll? I think that someone who is pro-Self ID has not thought through the implications for women and girls, and I would argue that she is not acting in the best interests of feminism, but no-one can tell her she isn't a feminist (assuming she's a biological woman, that is).

drspouse · 03/05/2018 11:34

some post has been blatantly disrespectful to trans people,
Examples please?

TeenTimesTwo · 03/05/2018 11:34

OP I think it's something we need to be discussing as a society to find a solution that means women's rights to safety are not compromised by trans rights to identify in a way they can live with and vice versa.

Yup. That's fine. But at the moment any discussion that isn't 'yup we agree with the TRAs' is getting shut down left right and centre in the media.

MN is one of the few places that is permitting the views of people who are concerned about the potential loss of women's rights to be discussed.

One of the problems is that the most vocal/heard voices on this seem to say that they will only accept self-id transwomen as being viewed exactly the same as biological women and that anything else is 'transphobic'.
Which doesn't leave much room for compromise does it?

So as a pro-self-id feminist, OP , how would you square this circle?

Scabbersley · 03/05/2018 11:34

Oh god, honestly.

This is Mumsnet.

If you let your kids eat grapes in the supermarket you get grief.

If you want to feel 'poorly used' , try saying you let your dog run up to other dogs when off lead!

Scabbersley · 03/05/2018 11:36

In the nicest possible way @Scabbersley, you are an average, everyday woman like millions of other women and like many women on MN

Exactly!

Idontdowindows · 03/05/2018 11:36

Self ID is the legal trans right that is being 'debated''.

How is self-id a right? So you would defend my right to self-id as a rocky outcrop on the outskirts of Mount Snowdon and fight for my rights to occupy the land and be cared for by the National Park services?

MaryMcCarthy · 03/05/2018 11:37

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sanluca · 03/05/2018 11:37

I do think the phrasing hard hardened these last couple of days. It has to do with transactivists and transallies and bullies screenshotting posts here, ripping them out of context, splattering them all over twitter, that leads to women being hounded. There is even one account who has decided to make life easy for shutting down debate and collecting all 'transphobic' posts and including the twitterhandle of MN for easy pickip and more hounding. Deleted posts then get screenshotted again and splattered across twitter again to show the world how transphobic MN is.
One post was actually the word yawn. It is guerilla war tactics to silence women. It is nit just for misgendering. The goalposts keep being moved and women are silenced a little bit at a time. If you can't see that, you are missing the big picture here.

FourFriedChickensDryWhiteToast · 03/05/2018 11:37

" blatantly disrespectful to trans people,"

listen, I have been called a 'disgusting cockroach' by some trans person just for saying that women's spaces should be for...women..

So please, lets not whine about 'blatant disrespect'...

Scabbersley · 03/05/2018 11:38

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