to worry I have no choice but to become my MIL around the house

[JammyDodger99]

I will preface this by saying my DP is absolutely wonderful and I love him dearly. We are engaged to be married this year and have been living together under a year.

Again, to preface - our relationship is strong and healthy, and we never fight- our communication is good and if we ever disagree we are good at working things through by talking calmly.

So to the problem... That said, he is pretty hopeless at "practical" tasks including housework and DIY. My MIL raised him in a totally sexist environment where the boys were totally cooked and catered for and the girls looked after the house. She never expected the boys to lift a finger for anything and cleaned up all around them.. (I still see this in evidence when we visit her where her other DS are still at home). Thankfully, DP is intelligent and enlightened and realises this was completely ridiculous (and that we will not raise any future DC in this way)! He doesn't want to perpetuate this inequality in our household or with future DCs and would describe himself as a feminist.

However, his upbringing has left him without skills in this area, and I have had to teach him the very basics, including how to make a cup of tea! Before we met he lived in a rather stereotypical shared house with a load of guys who relied on Deliveroo for everything so he didn't pick up many household skills (FFS).

He is not great at doing things because he doesn't notice when they need doing e.g. doesn't automatically think about the laundry or cleaning the surfaces, and his expectations are generally lower than mine as well e.g. he would be okay about leaving a dirty plate on the side which I wouldn't. I don't want to make excuses but I genuinely don't think he notices half the time.

To his credit, whenever I ask him he immediately helps out, but it doesn't come naturally, and so I worry I will become a nag after years of this. He also needs guidance and can't cook a meal from scratch or even do the laundry without repeated instruction! FFS I know this sounds like a nightmare!!! He is so wonderful though, supportive of me, kind, funny etc and this is the only problem I have with our relationship!

DP and I both work, however he works reeeally long hours leaving at about 8.30 and not usually getting home until 10pm-12miidnight (and sometimes after). He also sometimes has to work through the weekend but not always. My hours are much more normal so I tend to have evenings available. Therefore I obviously do end up with the lion's share of housework / household chores which, on balance, I think is fair enough since I have more time.

When tackling a household chore at the weekend when he is there, I have found myself thinking "it will be easier / quicker to do this myself" but then I feel like I will start doing everything and basically become my MIL. (please no).

When we have discussed this my DP is open and agrees he should contribute fairly and is always very sorry he hasn't been proactive about it. DP says he wants to be reminded but I have said I'm not sure I should have to - not sure if this is realistic. DP's other suggestion is that because he is time poor he would be happy to pay a cleaner to do his share so I do less. (DP earns considerably more than me so could afford it - very lucky I know).

I don't know how I feel about all of this. He is genuinely not a lazy bastard, he works really hard for us both and is super supportive in every other way. Sometimes I watch him when he's doing some task I've asked him to help with, like changing the bedsheets or making a sandwich, and it's clear he really has no clue what he is doing!! If I didn't have to be on the receiving end I would find it hilarious, watching him fumble around bless him. E.g. When I asked him to cook some pasta he put the saucepan on the hob with no water!! Lol! I just assumed he would know how, this but it is tragic!

Again, I don't mean to paint him out the wrong way - he is in fact highly intelligent and in a very responsible job! Lol.

I have a feeling this must be a fairly common issue with men who have been raised in this way. What can I do or how should we both handle this as we embark on married life? Does anyone else have experience of being with a man raised in this way?

Don't even start me on how we will cope if and when babies come along. I am fully aware of how much we will need to support one another so we stay together, and don't crumble under the lack of sleep and hellish hard work of a baby. I guess I am trying to work out how we can move forward to pave the way for this as well.

Any advice from those with a similar experience gratefully received. X

My MIL waited on DH hand and foot too. He had never cooked, done laundry or cleaned before I met him. He can do all of these things now and no, I did not teach him - he can do them because he's not an utter idiot. We each have tasks that we hate and avoid, because we're human, but it's mostly even. I do the laundry because I think it's easier to have one person in charge of it. He hoovers and changes the bunk bed sheets.

OP - your DP hasn't learned these things because he doesn't WANT to, not because he has some kind of learning difficulty, because as said upthread, he is in a responsible job where presumably he doesn't leave important emails unsent or need handholding when he opens or edits a simple spreadsheet.

He doesn't WANT to clean, tidy or take responsibility for his home - he wants you to. Note also that if you get a cleaner, it will be you hiring her, you arranging her hours and payment, you directing her to do whatever and you dealing with it if she isn't up to scratch, because women clean the home, and men don't have anything to do with it, in his world view.

My parents didn't teach me to cook or clean and I figured it out, he could if he wanted to.

changing the bedsheets or making a sandwich, and it's clear he really has no clue what he is doing!!... bless him!
...
When I asked him to cook some pasta he put the saucepan on the hob with no water!! Lol!

That's not cute. That's bloody embarrassing.

Op I think your lucky then if she has admitted this.

Imagine if she came at you like a beast because her poor son was having to cook evening meal.

Personally I think it's disgraceful to hobble men like this, what if mum dies or is just ill etc. Awful. It's a basic life skills for goodness sake!!

I was totally babied really by my mum but learned stuff when I left home. Let’s face it most people can and do.

I know I overparented my kids. My oldest son particularity bloody lazy but my excellent dil has his arse well kicked. Good on her.

My other kids have all learned. Your dh can too he just doesn’t want to.

MargaretCavendish yes quite possibly he did. Albeit to a poor standard! But I completely take your point. I did ask hm how he managed before and he couldn't fathom (! funny that). Disclaimer - he works far longer hours now. But still I accept the point.

Ridiculous - he doesn't know how to do it! He doesn't want to do it more like.

I grew up in the scruffiest, dirtiest environments and wasn't taught anything. I moved to a hostel at 17 and learnt myself. It's hardly rocket science to see what is dirty and clean it.

Google a basic recipe and cook it.

Everything has instructions on these days and most appliances are self explanatory.

Absolutely no excuse. If he can manage a stressful job he can manage a household task!!

Unless he is registered blind there is no excuse for not seeing the mess either.

blaming your mil for this, however mildly, is just perpetuating the idea that domestic shitwork is the woman of the house's responsibility, either to complete herself or to delegate to others. he is an adult. he lived independently between leaving home and moving in with you.i know it's not what you want to hear, but it's pathetic, and it's all on him, and if you go the route of aww but it's not his fault, and take on the task of trying to 'teach' him stuff that is (or should be) basic common sense and respect for the home and the other person in it, then you will regret it in years to come. i am not saying ltb, but this is disrespectful inconsiderate behaviour and should be approached as such, it's not cute.

Do most men really see what needs doing? Most men can and will do what needs doing when asked but it’s unusual if they actually notice something needs attention.
You’ll get there OP. I’m sure a lot of these perfectly trained husbands and partners have far worse traits than being hopeless at DIY and housework.

He lived in a flatshare and never made anything to eat or drink and never made or changed his bed? Never washed a dish, or saw someone else doing it ? Never washed his clothes?
He saw you coming.

llangennith, what do you suppose the physiological differences are between men and women that cause men to not notice that (for e.g.) plates are dirty or that laundry baskets are full?

SilverySurfer not a particularly kind or constructive response. Evidently If I'm on Mumsnut asking for advice I clearly want to change the status quo.

cocolepew

Good point. He’s having you on op and blaming it on his mum

Mumsnet obvs. "Mumsnut" possibly more appropriate in my case!

Oh my God. Don't have kids with him, whatever you do. He'll expect you to know what to do with them too.

Seriously, he couldn't even make a cup of tea? That kind of learned helplessness is so unattractive.

How did you work out how to cook and do housework, OP? Your h can learn the same way.

HIs long working hours mean that its probably fair for you to do housework during the week, but he can start at the weekend...

As someone currently married to a similar as described husband and with a seven year old I can only say, run. I can't express the absolute frustration of my situation, which I did not see coming, but I would never have married and had a child with this man if I had known. If you share finances (so he doesn't have the last say on hiring nannies, cleaners, etc.) then go ahead with the relationship. If not, and you cannot afford these, get out.

My husband is for all intents and purposes a good even wonderful man, but marriage and raising children have been a nightmare with him, every single thing in this house, every decision regarding our child, he basically mentally checked out of our relationship after our DS came. And it is not that he can't do things, he is wildly intelligent, it is just he doesn't want to, doesn't feel he should have too (we are from different cultural backgrounds), so frankly I no longer feel the way I did for him.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, and some here seems to have genuinely changed their husbands, but I would just be very cautious.

Does he own a smartphone? They are more complicated than any household device. He can also use You Tube to teach himself how to do tasks.

Your post contains a lot of red flags for me. I would be wary about a relationship with him. His behaviour will escalate if you have children. He needs to address it now.

Out of interest - if takeout is to be ordered or a bbq to be cooked (if such a thing happens) who does it? (Genuine question)

Agree with everyone else. He’s not useless, he doesn’t have any difficulties preventing him from doing his share, he’s not stupid...he simply doesn’t want to partake in the drudge work and would rather you did it instead. He might come across as the hapless charmer but he’s taking the right piss out of you. Imagine he took that tack at work...
But he wouldn’t, would he?
Wake up. Stop enabling his crap.

So if you want to stay with him/ get married/ have kids, I think you should come up with an idea of the minimum level of competence you're willing to accept (and I strongly suggest that level be 50:50 in all areas, but that's up to you) and then hold off on marriage/ kids until you get there. If he is serious about the relationship moving forwards then he'll make it his priority.

This ^^^

Thinking about it, I cannot believe he is this clueless. Who changed his sheets and did housework in his flat share?? He must have had to make breakfasts etc?? Sounds like he's taking you for a ride.

I'd agree to his suggestion of a cleaner - him paying, btw.

KatInTheHat Thanks for your honesty. We do share finances for the most part, with the intention of fully sharing by the time we are married (just need to find the time to sit down together and sort out).

Your situation sounds horrible. I obviously really don't want that to happen to me and DP. I am taking onboard people's perspectives here and believe it will be possible for us to make changes at this stage.

Another thread about a man who is useless around the house. I always thought I was pretty average but reading these threads I've realised that I am exceptionally talented, I actually worked it out how to do most of the tasks listed by myself!

OP - he doesn't do it because he thinks it's your job and wimmens work. Has he never purchased a new gadget? I would put money down that he probably spent hours working out how to use it and quickly became an expert. A washing machine and dishwasher in comparison are easy items to work out.

The red flag for me here is that he is proposing to get a cleaner to do his share rather than doing all of it. (Can I guess that you have separate money?) This suggests he thinks his higher salary buys him out of his responsibilities and your lower salary keeps you in yours. This is not a good sign.

If you have children with him, he's very likely to expand on this attitude when it comes to childcare and work. You love him so you won't like this but he sounds very likely to turn into the kind of man-baby who manages to be very successful at work while his wife looks after his whole life at home (i.e. you will turn into your MIL).

I wouldn't marry a man like that but you're going to so my advice would be to get him to agree that he will pay for a cleaner to do all of it. He's not given any indication he will take on his responsibilities and if you try to change him it will erode your relationship unless you capitulate. If he says no to the cleaner it's because he sees the housework as your responsibility and not his.

I wouldn't be surprised if his mum did everything for him when he lived in the shared house.

Can he ride a bike , drive a car, remember the rule of football or any other sport he likes, hold down a job, read a map? Then he can cook and do housework. Do not be taken in by learned incompetence. And do not blame his mother. He's an adult. It's not her fault.