to worry I have no choice but to become my MIL around the house

[JammyDodger99]

I will preface this by saying my DP is absolutely wonderful and I love him dearly. We are engaged to be married this year and have been living together under a year.

Again, to preface - our relationship is strong and healthy, and we never fight- our communication is good and if we ever disagree we are good at working things through by talking calmly.

So to the problem... That said, he is pretty hopeless at "practical" tasks including housework and DIY. My MIL raised him in a totally sexist environment where the boys were totally cooked and catered for and the girls looked after the house. She never expected the boys to lift a finger for anything and cleaned up all around them.. (I still see this in evidence when we visit her where her other DS are still at home). Thankfully, DP is intelligent and enlightened and realises this was completely ridiculous (and that we will not raise any future DC in this way)! He doesn't want to perpetuate this inequality in our household or with future DCs and would describe himself as a feminist.

However, his upbringing has left him without skills in this area, and I have had to teach him the very basics, including how to make a cup of tea! Before we met he lived in a rather stereotypical shared house with a load of guys who relied on Deliveroo for everything so he didn't pick up many household skills (FFS).

He is not great at doing things because he doesn't notice when they need doing e.g. doesn't automatically think about the laundry or cleaning the surfaces, and his expectations are generally lower than mine as well e.g. he would be okay about leaving a dirty plate on the side which I wouldn't. I don't want to make excuses but I genuinely don't think he notices half the time.

To his credit, whenever I ask him he immediately helps out, but it doesn't come naturally, and so I worry I will become a nag after years of this. He also needs guidance and can't cook a meal from scratch or even do the laundry without repeated instruction! FFS I know this sounds like a nightmare!!! He is so wonderful though, supportive of me, kind, funny etc and this is the only problem I have with our relationship!

DP and I both work, however he works reeeally long hours leaving at about 8.30 and not usually getting home until 10pm-12miidnight (and sometimes after). He also sometimes has to work through the weekend but not always. My hours are much more normal so I tend to have evenings available. Therefore I obviously do end up with the lion's share of housework / household chores which, on balance, I think is fair enough since I have more time.

When tackling a household chore at the weekend when he is there, I have found myself thinking "it will be easier / quicker to do this myself" but then I feel like I will start doing everything and basically become my MIL. (please no).

When we have discussed this my DP is open and agrees he should contribute fairly and is always very sorry he hasn't been proactive about it. DP says he wants to be reminded but I have said I'm not sure I should have to - not sure if this is realistic. DP's other suggestion is that because he is time poor he would be happy to pay a cleaner to do his share so I do less. (DP earns considerably more than me so could afford it - very lucky I know).

I don't know how I feel about all of this. He is genuinely not a lazy bastard, he works really hard for us both and is super supportive in every other way. Sometimes I watch him when he's doing some task I've asked him to help with, like changing the bedsheets or making a sandwich, and it's clear he really has no clue what he is doing!! If I didn't have to be on the receiving end I would find it hilarious, watching him fumble around bless him. E.g. When I asked him to cook some pasta he put the saucepan on the hob with no water!! Lol! I just assumed he would know how, this but it is tragic!

Again, I don't mean to paint him out the wrong way - he is in fact highly intelligent and in a very responsible job! Lol.

I have a feeling this must be a fairly common issue with men who have been raised in this way. What can I do or how should we both handle this as we embark on married life? Does anyone else have experience of being with a man raised in this way?

Don't even start me on how we will cope if and when babies come along. I am fully aware of how much we will need to support one another so we stay together, and don't crumble under the lack of sleep and hellish hard work of a baby. I guess I am trying to work out how we can move forward to pave the way for this as well.

Any advice from those with a similar experience gratefully received. X

not to hijack but everyday sexism....cleaners can be men too you know.

The everyday sexism here is that women are often forced in to low paid cleaning work. Not that the OP is aware that the majority of home cleaners are women. Women do more of the low paid caring work, from nursery work, to home care to cleaning.

OP, did he really say he didn't know how to make a sandwich? The only way anyone could possibly not know how to make a sandwich, is if they had never heard of it, or eaten one.
Because even if you'd only ever eaten sandwiches bought from a shop, it's obvious how they're made. Two slices of bread, with something in the middle.

This is why I doubt his incompetence. Add to that the pasta incident, and it shows someone who thinks it's YOUR job.

I worry that he's making all the right noises about agreeing he doesn't pull his weight, and wanting to learn how, but after a while, he'll slip back to his old ways. He'll have plausible excuses about why he hasn't done the laundry, or remembered to pick up some milk, and will step up again for a bit, and love bomb you to make you forget, and then he'll "forget" to do something else...

I'm not sure that 6 months or so until your wedding, is enough time. It will be quite easy for him to keep up appearances until you're married. And then, you'll be trapped, you're not going to throw in the towel so soon after the wedding, and so easily.

I hope you manage to work things out OP, it does sound like you’ve got your head screwed on in terms of how you are prepared to put up with being treated.

Do you really suggest it is not even worth taking steps to work on and I just walk away now?
I would say that it’s up to your DP to take these steps to work on things. By him choosing to leave everything up to you, it’s already caused a lot of stress and headspace for you.

The things he needs to do aren’t difficult. I think if he can make the effort to do them without being nagged/reminded/you making him a rota/giving instructions,etc then it will show he does actually respect you.

I think the problem with a rota is that he won’t ‘see’ the extra that invariably crops up as it’s not on ‘his list’ so you will end up doing it or asking him to which again involves effort/headspace on your part.

He needs to change his whole outlook. Him saying you both need to write down the ‘invisible’ tasks is very telling - he’s still saying ‘this is nothing to do with me, I don’t see these things, I can’t work it out for myself, I need a list’.

He should really be admitting that he’s chosen to ignore these tasks (consciously or subconsciously) as he knows you will do them. He should then make a decision to get on and do what needs doing and not leave it all to you.

By involving you in lists of ‘invisible tasks’ he’s not taking responsibility and you’re still burdened with sorting this problem out.

LibrarianOfDoom

sorry yes I didn't word that very well! the point I was trying to make that the OP was indicating an automatic thought that cleaning is "womens work" - I think that she said something like if they got a cleaner it would be "another woman" doing the cleaning. My clumsy point was that there is no reason why they couldn't get a man in to do the cleaning...

I actually think it would be really interesting to see if that changed the OPs DP's approach.

I am not crusading for the terrible sexism that men endure that prevents them from living their cleaning dreams.

Lovely update OP. AIBU is a rough place sometimes but most people's intentions are good, even if they express themselves somewhat forcefully.

Good luck and come back in a few months to tell us how it's going.

NotTakenUsername
there is just cannot be any reason why anybody should put up with this level of cheeky fuckery....

And yet women up and down the country do, day in and day out. Why is that...?

I think it's because some women are prepared to put up with almost anything just to have a man in their life.

The good news is that more and more women won't.

Great update, OP. Sounds like you and your dp have a great chance of working through this.

Everybody who knows has to have learnt even if just through observation. If you've lived in a family where only one person goes into the kitchen you'll miss out. (My ds told me that his uni flatmate didn't know how to cook at all to the extent she put frozen peas into the oven on the highest heat and left them for two hours until baked to a cinder.)

Thank you for the update OP. It all sounds very positive & good you are both tackling this together now.

I wish you well OP. I'm sorry if my comment was more negatively toned than it needed to be.

If only everyone had to hash out these issues before they got married.

DH was like this when we first met - boarding school from a young age and his family had staff so he’d never lifted a finger.

Things changed when I pointed out to him that, I can (and have, in the past) take on the traditional male role of breadwinner, and that he needs to be able to take on the traditional female role, in his own way.

I also worked OOH while he was studying/WFH with our children when they were small.

He doesn’t do things the way I’d do them, but he does them without leaving any fallout for me to clear up after him.

Three things:
Tell him it’s something he needs to gain mastery of,
Leave him to do it his own way.
Don’t criticise if it’s not the way you’d do it but don’t pick up after him so he has to deal with the results of leaving things half done.

It’s not his fault he doesn’t know what to do but it will be if he doesn’t start learning sharpish!