to worry I have no choice but to become my MIL around the house

[JammyDodger99]

I will preface this by saying my DP is absolutely wonderful and I love him dearly. We are engaged to be married this year and have been living together under a year.

Again, to preface - our relationship is strong and healthy, and we never fight- our communication is good and if we ever disagree we are good at working things through by talking calmly.

So to the problem... That said, he is pretty hopeless at "practical" tasks including housework and DIY. My MIL raised him in a totally sexist environment where the boys were totally cooked and catered for and the girls looked after the house. She never expected the boys to lift a finger for anything and cleaned up all around them.. (I still see this in evidence when we visit her where her other DS are still at home). Thankfully, DP is intelligent and enlightened and realises this was completely ridiculous (and that we will not raise any future DC in this way)! He doesn't want to perpetuate this inequality in our household or with future DCs and would describe himself as a feminist.

However, his upbringing has left him without skills in this area, and I have had to teach him the very basics, including how to make a cup of tea! Before we met he lived in a rather stereotypical shared house with a load of guys who relied on Deliveroo for everything so he didn't pick up many household skills (FFS).

He is not great at doing things because he doesn't notice when they need doing e.g. doesn't automatically think about the laundry or cleaning the surfaces, and his expectations are generally lower than mine as well e.g. he would be okay about leaving a dirty plate on the side which I wouldn't. I don't want to make excuses but I genuinely don't think he notices half the time.

To his credit, whenever I ask him he immediately helps out, but it doesn't come naturally, and so I worry I will become a nag after years of this. He also needs guidance and can't cook a meal from scratch or even do the laundry without repeated instruction! FFS I know this sounds like a nightmare!!! He is so wonderful though, supportive of me, kind, funny etc and this is the only problem I have with our relationship!

DP and I both work, however he works reeeally long hours leaving at about 8.30 and not usually getting home until 10pm-12miidnight (and sometimes after). He also sometimes has to work through the weekend but not always. My hours are much more normal so I tend to have evenings available. Therefore I obviously do end up with the lion's share of housework / household chores which, on balance, I think is fair enough since I have more time.

When tackling a household chore at the weekend when he is there, I have found myself thinking "it will be easier / quicker to do this myself" but then I feel like I will start doing everything and basically become my MIL. (please no).

When we have discussed this my DP is open and agrees he should contribute fairly and is always very sorry he hasn't been proactive about it. DP says he wants to be reminded but I have said I'm not sure I should have to - not sure if this is realistic. DP's other suggestion is that because he is time poor he would be happy to pay a cleaner to do his share so I do less. (DP earns considerably more than me so could afford it - very lucky I know).

I don't know how I feel about all of this. He is genuinely not a lazy bastard, he works really hard for us both and is super supportive in every other way. Sometimes I watch him when he's doing some task I've asked him to help with, like changing the bedsheets or making a sandwich, and it's clear he really has no clue what he is doing!! If I didn't have to be on the receiving end I would find it hilarious, watching him fumble around bless him. E.g. When I asked him to cook some pasta he put the saucepan on the hob with no water!! Lol! I just assumed he would know how, this but it is tragic!

Again, I don't mean to paint him out the wrong way - he is in fact highly intelligent and in a very responsible job! Lol.

I have a feeling this must be a fairly common issue with men who have been raised in this way. What can I do or how should we both handle this as we embark on married life? Does anyone else have experience of being with a man raised in this way?

Don't even start me on how we will cope if and when babies come along. I am fully aware of how much we will need to support one another so we stay together, and don't crumble under the lack of sleep and hellish hard work of a baby. I guess I am trying to work out how we can move forward to pave the way for this as well.

Any advice from those with a similar experience gratefully received. X

It's not helpful when people say things like "don't have children with this man" to be honest.

It’s probably the most helpful piece of advice you will ever get tbh. You’ll wish you’d listened in 20 years after raising his children with him “not knowing” how to do any of it.

I had children with mine and he’s an excellent and very hands onfather.

People are a product of their upbringing though. I’ve never really understood why my PILs didn’t teach him how to take care of himself. I suspect the answer was because that’s what wives are for.

It is worth your time to help him learn this stuff otherwise it can become a huge bone of contention between you.

I have to say that my children are still primary school age and I already involve them in housework and basic cooking.

My MIL is completely appalled every time she sees my son with the hoover or mop.

What would you do op? If you didn't know how to do some incredibly basic thing? You'd look it up. You'd learn. He hasn't because he isn't bothered. All of this 'I want to help, I really do....' is nonsense. If he gave even the slightest shit he would have Googled 'how to change bedding' and dome it.

Start small!!

I started with the bathroom (out of my eyeline)

Gave him cloths and spray and instructions to clean the sink worktop bath - empty rubbish clean toilet -

Not always a great job, but I whipped in and finished it when he wasn't looking! Like you donwoth 5 year olds!!

Then I moved on to the dishwasher - he had to empty it - I couldn't load it until he'd emptied it (so he could see the build up) resist woman!!! Do not be fooled into emptying it!!! Walk away!!!

Now he automatically cleans the bathroom every Saturday, he does the kitchen after tea, he cooks Sunday lunch once a month and every Christmas dinner

He will also pick up birthday cards and gifts as he works near the shops.

He empties the bins and cuts the grass. He hoovers sometimes and polishes.

It's possible - patience pays off

Oh yes, and I agree with a PP that OH should learn how to do all this before you get a cleaner.

If he doesn't learn now, he's certainly not going to bother learning once he's got used to paying someone else to do it.

WomanEqualsAdultHumanFemale Absolutely, you are completely right. There goes an example of internalised misogyny on my part. Fuck, I have no hope do I?!!

he is in fact highly intelligent and in a very responsible job!

They always are...

He must have done some laundry in the flat share at the very least

Lists of instructions
House work rota
He needs to be able to do basic tasks
Once he has learnt, let him get a cleaner. He may not always be able to afford one in the future

If he can cope at work he can cope at home. It's just because he sees it as your job because you're female.

Honestly, just spend an evening browsing the relationship boards on here. Read about the women who give up work to have children with incompetent men.

Then they're fucked because they are financially dependent, stuck with doing everything for the house, kids and the husband.

I'd move out, let him train himself and move back in if he makes a decent effort.

And as for not putting water in the saucepan - I mean they have instructions on the side of pasta which say boiling water.

So he could have worked that one out in under 5 seconds. Again - I suspect VERY STRONGLY that if someone at work said here is a pack of substance that needs to be softened he would have worked it out.

I seriously doubt he's deliberately being a dick. But not making an effort to not be a dick is almost as bad.

No one taught me how to boil pasta. It came from watching others and common sense

BTW I used to work those sorts of hours and still sorted my own laundry , organised my food. I did have a cleaner though. But I still supervised them.

I’d start by putting the wedding on hold. Show him you are serious that this is NOT something you are prepared to tolerate for the rest of your life.

Explain to him that he has to act like an actual adult and share the MENTAL load as well as the physical load. You will not be responsible for instructing or reminding.

Can I assume you don’t have joint finances (as HE has the money for a cleaner)? If you don’t, then it doesn’t matter if you work 2 hours to his 40+ You don’t need to be picking up any of the physical ‘slack’ if him being out at work a lot doesn’t benefit you.

Get a cleaner if he’s willing to pay for it as that’s some of his share of domestic duties done, but that doesn’t mean he gets to do jack shit when he is home.

Tell him he’s on cooking 50% of the time when he’s home. Then arrange that however suits YOU best. Either you show him how to make a dish ONCE or he Google’s and cooks. He’s an adult, he can follow instructions to make a lasagne, cottage pie etc and he is on ALL tea, breakfast, lunch making duties when he’s home until he’s competent then back to 50/50.

Get this sorted NOW. If you can’t, do not get married. NOTHING else makes up for an incompetent twat when you’re knee deep in nappies and he can’t boil an egg or ‘doesn’t see’ the floor needs mopping and some washing needs doing.

E.g. When I asked him to cook some pasta he put the saucepan on the hob with no water!!

He sounds like he may have some learning difficulties on the basis of this example

My dad sounds like your DP.

Until recently my Mum was still working part time and she would come home and he had done nothing around the house at all.

My Dad has never cooked anything in his life or has a clue with any housework and my Mum has put up with this for nearly 50 years.

If seriously scares me that if my mum does before him (probably from exhaustion), he will not be able to live alone.

Never seen a packet of pasta that didn't have the cooking instructions on the side...

I genuinely don't think he notices half the time.

Be careful about this it’s perilously close to the oft quoted but never true “men don’t see mess”.

Men do see, they do notice. They just are often raised to think it’s not their responsibility.

If he agrees that it’s his responsibility then he needs to start actioning it. You need to let him.

Do all the cleaning together at a weekend when you both have time.

Try out a new recipe together every Saturday night. Not something you can already cook. Something new to both of you.

My Dad has never cooked anything in his life or has a clue with any housework and my Mum has put up with this for nearly 50 years.

You get what you settle for. Take Persian’s advice, don’t settle.

OP, I assume you're hoping to be with your DP for many years to come so it really is worth putting the time in now even though you'd be quicker doing it. You'll be glad in years to come! I do think that him paying for a cleaner is a cop out - he needs to learn these skills.

I left home not really able to cook (I'm a woman by the way). I picked it up. It's really not that hard.

It's not helpful when people say things like "don't have children with this man" to be honest

Why not?

You are getting the advice you asked for, from women who know, better than you, what a mistake that would be UNLESS he shapes up. But if you think you know better, or you won’t mind being the drudge for the next 60/70 years, you crack on.

Ye Gods! So, the man lacks a whole host of skills and is not proactive about noticing things that need doing and some posters are advocating he be burned at the stake!. OP has already said, the guy wants to learn but its an uphill task - and some posters accuse the guy of deceit in this respect. Misandrists unbound - clearly. What's actually needed is lists and a regime in place (i.e. certain things to be done at certain times on certain days) and - from OP - lot's of training, patience and encouragement. He'll get there even if it takes a long time - celebrate the improvements and don't get too frustrated OP. Also, don't give up and just do it yourself - that won't make either of you happy despite the misandristic comments of some folk on the thread.

Can he manage YouTube? And Google?

Seriously, stop babying him. If he burns the toast or goes to work in a wrinkled shirt - good life lesson. My DH was similarly helpless in some ways. Bloody ridiculous, I refuse to pander to it.

I would take him at his word that he has never learnt - and set out to teach him. I would outsource the cleaning initially as you cant do everything at once and this will give you more time. I would then start on one task each month and build upon his knowledge. Most men it seems do not 'notice' than things need doing but appear to be able to follow a list of jobs to be done so go with that.

This month DH you are going to learn to do the washing... sort the clothes (you might want to remove anything too delicate! to do when he is not around) this is the instructions for the washing machine, this is how we dry, this is how the iron works. So you do the laundry I'll carry on with everything else. Next month add in a different job, say cleaning the bathroom.

You will soon see whether he is geniunely uneducated or just plain lazy.

My 8yr old SN child can cook and serve dinner for 6 people - and I am talking a full chicken curry and accompanyments for example. She can do this becuase over the school holidays she cooks at least 1 night a week - and some half terms she has cooked every night for a week. This is something that interests her before anyone says its cruel - but it is something she has learnt progressing from putting a list of things into an oven dish to using the hob, handling meat etc.

It can be done but you are going to have to treat him like a teenager for a while and be determined about it!

Good Luck!!