to worry I have no choice but to become my MIL around the house

[JammyDodger99]

I will preface this by saying my DP is absolutely wonderful and I love him dearly. We are engaged to be married this year and have been living together under a year.

Again, to preface - our relationship is strong and healthy, and we never fight- our communication is good and if we ever disagree we are good at working things through by talking calmly.

So to the problem... That said, he is pretty hopeless at "practical" tasks including housework and DIY. My MIL raised him in a totally sexist environment where the boys were totally cooked and catered for and the girls looked after the house. She never expected the boys to lift a finger for anything and cleaned up all around them.. (I still see this in evidence when we visit her where her other DS are still at home). Thankfully, DP is intelligent and enlightened and realises this was completely ridiculous (and that we will not raise any future DC in this way)! He doesn't want to perpetuate this inequality in our household or with future DCs and would describe himself as a feminist.

However, his upbringing has left him without skills in this area, and I have had to teach him the very basics, including how to make a cup of tea! Before we met he lived in a rather stereotypical shared house with a load of guys who relied on Deliveroo for everything so he didn't pick up many household skills (FFS).

He is not great at doing things because he doesn't notice when they need doing e.g. doesn't automatically think about the laundry or cleaning the surfaces, and his expectations are generally lower than mine as well e.g. he would be okay about leaving a dirty plate on the side which I wouldn't. I don't want to make excuses but I genuinely don't think he notices half the time.

To his credit, whenever I ask him he immediately helps out, but it doesn't come naturally, and so I worry I will become a nag after years of this. He also needs guidance and can't cook a meal from scratch or even do the laundry without repeated instruction! FFS I know this sounds like a nightmare!!! He is so wonderful though, supportive of me, kind, funny etc and this is the only problem I have with our relationship!

DP and I both work, however he works reeeally long hours leaving at about 8.30 and not usually getting home until 10pm-12miidnight (and sometimes after). He also sometimes has to work through the weekend but not always. My hours are much more normal so I tend to have evenings available. Therefore I obviously do end up with the lion's share of housework / household chores which, on balance, I think is fair enough since I have more time.

When tackling a household chore at the weekend when he is there, I have found myself thinking "it will be easier / quicker to do this myself" but then I feel like I will start doing everything and basically become my MIL. (please no).

When we have discussed this my DP is open and agrees he should contribute fairly and is always very sorry he hasn't been proactive about it. DP says he wants to be reminded but I have said I'm not sure I should have to - not sure if this is realistic. DP's other suggestion is that because he is time poor he would be happy to pay a cleaner to do his share so I do less. (DP earns considerably more than me so could afford it - very lucky I know).

I don't know how I feel about all of this. He is genuinely not a lazy bastard, he works really hard for us both and is super supportive in every other way. Sometimes I watch him when he's doing some task I've asked him to help with, like changing the bedsheets or making a sandwich, and it's clear he really has no clue what he is doing!! If I didn't have to be on the receiving end I would find it hilarious, watching him fumble around bless him. E.g. When I asked him to cook some pasta he put the saucepan on the hob with no water!! Lol! I just assumed he would know how, this but it is tragic!

Again, I don't mean to paint him out the wrong way - he is in fact highly intelligent and in a very responsible job! Lol.

I have a feeling this must be a fairly common issue with men who have been raised in this way. What can I do or how should we both handle this as we embark on married life? Does anyone else have experience of being with a man raised in this way?

Don't even start me on how we will cope if and when babies come along. I am fully aware of how much we will need to support one another so we stay together, and don't crumble under the lack of sleep and hellish hard work of a baby. I guess I am trying to work out how we can move forward to pave the way for this as well.

Any advice from those with a similar experience gratefully received. X

I have one like this. After 20 years its not much better. He has a very responsible job can remember when footie/bike racing etc is on but how to put the washing machine on?

Google 'the mental load' and start working to change your life otherwise you may find down the line that its a deal breaker. Good luck (meant most sincerely)

I have no memory of my parents teaching me how to mop a floor, wash up or scrub a toilet. Just told to get on with it, they are not difficult tasks.

Doesn't know how to change bed sheets?

Does he just stand there looking confused and mumbling that can't do it with a face.

He's an adult FFS, if he wanted to do it, he would.

Impressed at your 8yo owl... What's she doing in half term?

Good ideas about not getting clearer till after he's learnt. Thank you.

It pisses me off I have to teach him. I will persevere.

Thanks AmazingPostVoices and GreenTulips for the supportive advice.

To those who think I should give up on this marriage and walk away over this... I am not perfect. I have numerous flaws that no doubt make me a challenge to be with at times, as well as lots of things that make me a great partner. This is the same as my DP and the same as everyone who identifies as human. I would far rather THIS was his flaw, than if he raised his voice or spoke to me like shit, cheated, lied or belittled me. These would be 'leave-able' offences. He does none of those things and is loving, and supportive in every other way, and brings me happiness. This is a matter of working out how we can function better as a partnership in the coming years, if there's any advice on him stepping up in this specific area - and practical advice is helpful.

Exactly blue. You sort of pick it up and learn through mistakes on the way

He can actually do all the things you said he can’t.

He is just taking the piss.

OP, if he is trying to persuade you he doesn't know how to fold a sheet or make a cup of tea, he IS belittling you. He is saying through his actions that he thinks you are an idiot.

My parents also failed to equip me with skills for survival. I left at home at 19 with a baby no knowing how to boil an egg or cook pasta. I had no internet then so I asked my best friend to show me some basic meals and bought a delia cookbook. Washing laundry was a lot of guess work but my wachine machine came with an instruction book and most clothing has labels on with symbols. With the internet, there is really no excuse these days. Mopping a floor, hoovering, hanging laundry up is pretty self explanatory. I’ve never lived with another adult so everything I do to keep our house ticking over (and actually quite clean!) has been self taught. My two sons both know how to work the washing machine, the oven, microwave, dishwasher, toaster, kettle. if they don’t know how to do something I say “read the instructions”. I rarely need to say it tbh. They know how to find stuff out now. Your DP will soon find the inclination to wash laundry when he has no clean shirts for work. This worked well for my eldest when he didn’t bother to wash his uniform one weekend and had no clean uniform on the Monday. I knew he hadn’t done it, I could have done it for him but the best lessons learned are the ones you learn the hard way.

I would far rather THIS was his flaw, than if he raised his voice or spoke to me like shit, cheated, lied or belittled me. These would be 'leave-able' offences. He does none of those things and is loving, and supportive in every other way, and brings me happiness.

The thing is, you're acting like this kind of learned incompetence is completely divorced from what he thinks of you. But it isn't. He's apparently been trained to expect a skivvy, and for all his fine words about being a feminist he doesn't seem to actually want to tackle that, so you will be treated like one. You've been living together less than a year - this is him on best behaviour. You can't assume it'll get better than this.

It pisses me off I have to teach him. I will persevere.

I've just done a quick search on youtube, and there's loads of videos on how to do laundry, how to wash dishes, how to make the bed, how to boil pasta etc. He should be able to teach himself.

Could he spend the evening having a google and see which chores he fancies having a go at first?

OP, if he is trying to persuade you he doesn't know how to fold a sheet or make a cup of tea, he IS belittling you. He is saying through his actions that he thinks you are an idiot.

This is what I was trying to say, but better put!

You keep saying 'lol' in your OP. You're going to stop finding this cute or funny very quickly, and then you're just stuck with it. And, on a more flippant note, how could anyone bring themselves to have sex with someone they really thought was genuinely so stupid that they didn't know pasta is cooked in water?!

If he’s a bright chap he will pick it all up quite quickly.

In the interests of ensuring he learns all the basics maybe write a list a work out a schedule with a timescale for learning to manage a household. Key skill IMO is learning to do things as you go along. I exploded at DH yesterday for once again walking past something that clearly needed to be carried downstairs. That’s laziness, otherwise known as, ‘if I leave it she will do it so I don’t need to bother.’

Actually jammy your part of the problem. Stop treating him like an idiot

I let him get on with it. He works it out himself, mostly. And when it’s not up to my standards I pick and choose when to point it out.

how to wash dishes

Come on, of cause he knows how to wash dishes!!

You wash the dirt off, that's it!

He's mugging you off OP.

the mental load

wifework, read it

he can do this, he's choosing not to. either he is monumentally incompetent, or a passive aggressive dickbag. either way, how can you bear to shag this person?

Don’t for goodness sake teach. He wants to make pasta, he can read the packet. It’s only like following any set of instructions. I bet he can learn how to use a new IT system at work. Or put a new bike rack on the car. It is totally sexist disregard for domestic responsibility. Someone else’s bloomin job. Please OP, read Wifework before you go any further. And don’t be the organiser of all things domestic, why should you. If there is going to be a rota, a chore split, or a cleaner, it should not be up to you to decide who does what or facilitate. Grr. However, I also would not have children if his hours are going to continue to be like that.

Of course*

@StealthPolarBear I'm not sure yet - she is planning something though - toad in the hole is her current favourite! (if only I could add keeping her room clean to her skills set...)

I completely see how people can get into adulthood without being able to boil an egg. I have taught many adults to cook over the years (though surestart centres) giving them the life skills to cook and eat healthly and not rely on the shove it in the oven/microwave method. Often it is that the previous generation were also 'ping dinner' users and therefore did not show their kids how to cook. I have had kids as young as 4 in the kitchen making dinner (- they eat whatever they have cooked that way too - but that is a whole different thread.)

I'm not going to tell you to leave him because you love him and he seems otherwise kind and decent, but I do agree with the people saying put the wedding on hold to show him BIG changes need to happen RIGHT NOW. Because otherwise it'll be a drip drip drip and in 5 years you'll be saying "well after a lot of hard work he can do about 30% of the domestic chores fairly well, 40% if asked and supervised." It'll have been such a slog to get there that you will start to think "that's good enough, I'll just do the other 70% myself". You won't even START with the mental load stuff because itll just seem like too big a battle. And trust me, I f he doesn't "see" mess (i.e. Something literally visible) then he definitely won't "see" the invislible stuff like remembering when DC is due a dentist appointment or has a school trip or something. And by the same token, if he hasn't yet learnt how to do the stuff that almost all NT adults know how to do just by common sense alone (boiling pasta in water, I mean ffs!!) then he definitely won't cope with the stuff everybody is just figuring out as they go (like what to do when you have a new baby!). If he hasn't got the basics down then you need to seriously hold off on the advanced stuff (like starting a family) until he does.

And I know you say he's a feminist who wants to change, but I also agree with those who say that if he was genuinely willing to learn then he wouldn't need to be taught. I was quite babied by my mum (also a lone parent) and not taught many basic life skills but I didn't just sit in my own filth living on takeaways as an adult. I googled, watched YouTube, and experimented until I knew how to do stuff! I didn't sit on my butt waiting to meet my DP so he could show me how. TBH I think you should take his willingness to change with a big pinch of salt.

So if you want to stay with him/ get married/ have kids (which you clearly do) then I think you should come up with an idea of the minimum level of competence you're willing to accept (and I strongly suggest that level be 50:50 in all areas, but that's up to you) and then hold off on marriage/ kids until you get there. If he is serious about the relationship moving forwards then he'll make it his priority.

Tesco recipe cards are good for beginner cooks. They are simple in their techniques and explainations as well as being quite cheap and not too many ingredients. Their Tortilla Quiche is a favourite here.

no one taught me.
I am willing to bet that no one taught a lot of the women on this thread.
They knew something had to be done so they worked out how to do it.

He doesn't know because he doesn't want to. If he is as intelligent and as loving as you say surely he can figure out how to make a sodding bed.

Honestly, sometimes I despair.

Mt DP is like this. He has become better with the occasional reminder from me but he just goes back to being hopeless of he us stressed or tired. We deal with it by hiring a cleaner to do most of the work, having a dishwasher (he makes a huge mess washing dishes which really pisses me off), dryer etc. Essentially we do what we can to minimise the tasks so that his lack of domestic aptitude is less of an issue.

Amazing
You are so right my Mum chose to settle with this but as much as i love my dad, I would rather be single than live with a man like him.

My DH had a Mum who was the same as your MIL. DH just learnt these things.. I find it very hard to believe a grown man can't work a washing machine, my 8 year old son this morning - despite never doing this before managed to sort a load of dark washing, put it in the washing machine, pop in two liquid tabs and some conditioner ( I told him the middle slot) and turned the knob to dark wash and pressed on!