to worry I have no choice but to become my MIL around the house

[JammyDodger99]

I will preface this by saying my DP is absolutely wonderful and I love him dearly. We are engaged to be married this year and have been living together under a year.

Again, to preface - our relationship is strong and healthy, and we never fight- our communication is good and if we ever disagree we are good at working things through by talking calmly.

So to the problem... That said, he is pretty hopeless at "practical" tasks including housework and DIY. My MIL raised him in a totally sexist environment where the boys were totally cooked and catered for and the girls looked after the house. She never expected the boys to lift a finger for anything and cleaned up all around them.. (I still see this in evidence when we visit her where her other DS are still at home). Thankfully, DP is intelligent and enlightened and realises this was completely ridiculous (and that we will not raise any future DC in this way)! He doesn't want to perpetuate this inequality in our household or with future DCs and would describe himself as a feminist.

However, his upbringing has left him without skills in this area, and I have had to teach him the very basics, including how to make a cup of tea! Before we met he lived in a rather stereotypical shared house with a load of guys who relied on Deliveroo for everything so he didn't pick up many household skills (FFS).

He is not great at doing things because he doesn't notice when they need doing e.g. doesn't automatically think about the laundry or cleaning the surfaces, and his expectations are generally lower than mine as well e.g. he would be okay about leaving a dirty plate on the side which I wouldn't. I don't want to make excuses but I genuinely don't think he notices half the time.

To his credit, whenever I ask him he immediately helps out, but it doesn't come naturally, and so I worry I will become a nag after years of this. He also needs guidance and can't cook a meal from scratch or even do the laundry without repeated instruction! FFS I know this sounds like a nightmare!!! He is so wonderful though, supportive of me, kind, funny etc and this is the only problem I have with our relationship!

DP and I both work, however he works reeeally long hours leaving at about 8.30 and not usually getting home until 10pm-12miidnight (and sometimes after). He also sometimes has to work through the weekend but not always. My hours are much more normal so I tend to have evenings available. Therefore I obviously do end up with the lion's share of housework / household chores which, on balance, I think is fair enough since I have more time.

When tackling a household chore at the weekend when he is there, I have found myself thinking "it will be easier / quicker to do this myself" but then I feel like I will start doing everything and basically become my MIL. (please no).

When we have discussed this my DP is open and agrees he should contribute fairly and is always very sorry he hasn't been proactive about it. DP says he wants to be reminded but I have said I'm not sure I should have to - not sure if this is realistic. DP's other suggestion is that because he is time poor he would be happy to pay a cleaner to do his share so I do less. (DP earns considerably more than me so could afford it - very lucky I know).

I don't know how I feel about all of this. He is genuinely not a lazy bastard, he works really hard for us both and is super supportive in every other way. Sometimes I watch him when he's doing some task I've asked him to help with, like changing the bedsheets or making a sandwich, and it's clear he really has no clue what he is doing!! If I didn't have to be on the receiving end I would find it hilarious, watching him fumble around bless him. E.g. When I asked him to cook some pasta he put the saucepan on the hob with no water!! Lol! I just assumed he would know how, this but it is tragic!

Again, I don't mean to paint him out the wrong way - he is in fact highly intelligent and in a very responsible job! Lol.

I have a feeling this must be a fairly common issue with men who have been raised in this way. What can I do or how should we both handle this as we embark on married life? Does anyone else have experience of being with a man raised in this way?

Don't even start me on how we will cope if and when babies come along. I am fully aware of how much we will need to support one another so we stay together, and don't crumble under the lack of sleep and hellish hard work of a baby. I guess I am trying to work out how we can move forward to pave the way for this as well.

Any advice from those with a similar experience gratefully received. X

Does he have to have similar adjustments for his incompetence at work?

He's got plenty of time to learn to be less incompetent before you get married. If that time is not long enough, do not resign yourself to a lifetime of wiping his arse for him because that will breed nothing but resentment. Do you really want to spend the next 50 years in domestic slavery to a man who doesn't even have the motivation to look up how to make a cup of tea under his own steam? Is he really so incompetent that he doesn't know how to use Google and YouTube?

If he really was a lovely man, he wouldn't want you to live that life. Think very hard before you commit to him.

There is no way he has to "learn" how to make a bed. I didn't teach my children how to do it. They sleep in a bed. They can see how it works. He is being completely disrespectful.

For cooking, get him to read the packets.

Don't go along the "bless him" route.

My DH was brought up in a completely stereotypical household. His parents exchanged meaningful looks when he said he sewed on a cub badge. He didn't need extensive tuition in how to function as an adult though, because it is not actually hard to do.

If everything else is good and he is willing to learn I would book him onto a cookery course as a birthday gift. Insists he leans how to make several basic dishes including an omelette, how to peel potatoes and veg and make a casserole, and a spaghetti bolognese. Teach him how to do laundry with instruction sheet which you laminate and stick on to washing machine, show him how to fold laundry when it is dry and how to clean top of cooker and work surfaces. I would then try to do all other stuff myself. I would ask him to graduate to bringing you tea in bed now he can make tea,

He doesn't sound either "absolutely wonderful " to me.

The reasons he "doesn't see" stuff needs doing is because he doesn't consider it to be his job. It is a woman's. He hasn't learnt because he doesn't want to and he doesn't need to - because there's always a women around to take on the "lion's share" and the responsibility

He's not incompetent. He's willfully incompetent.

How you can find that attractive in a man I just do not know.

Littleowl I meant does she want to correct round here :)

You would have thought that this kind of man would have just died out by now by natural selection since no woman would ever want to have sex with them. But it seems that some women still find this kind of male helplessness adorable and "worth it".

Nordic I am not going to postpone the wedding (it's not until the end of the year) but yes I agree in the meantime it is a good idea to start from scratch here and together make a proper plan, divide up responsibilities etc. I think it is worth making a real effort together and having a campaign to get this sorted, or at least significantly better so we can start married life on more of an even keel in this respect. I am committed to him and he is to me so this is an important aspect of it.

Dairy that sounds familiar. My DP's job is very high pressure and he does go through phases of virtually no work/life balance. E.g. working 4 weekends through in a row which was hellish. Luckily he is on a career progression path which means in a years time he will be promoted and hours will be much better (still long but nothing like this). However he does seem more "hopeless" during these times of stress.

We are having a holiday in 2 weeks time and I am going to sit down with him and have a full discussion about this and make a plan.

Op and any others.. Who have same set up, how would you feel if your Mil then verbally attacked you over the house and how it wasn't clean enough, or that you needed to be giving her son more help in general ie to look smart, cut hair etc?

Because the men in my family were super proficient in cooking, house work.. Yes df was messy but could certainly take care of us very well if dm not there, both dB the same.

Dh.. And his df however inept.
Mil kept them this way. Its her work.

It's quite sad that now nearing 40 dh has found he loves cooking and is really good at it, far better than me.

But Mil one day.. Went for my throat how awful I was for not helping him

I cannot imagine going for my dd future spouse over stuff I should have perhaps prepared her for.

The thing about not having children with him - firstly, it’s really good advice as babies are hard work and you need to be a team.

But also - this is morbid, but I know of a couple where the woman was killed recently in a car crash. What if her husband was incompetent? What would happen to their children? I know that if something terrible happened to me - be it death, disability or illness - my husband would be more than capable of running the house and looking after them. I couldn’t bring children into the world with someone I couldn’t rely on to be a good father and this level of incompetence and dependence does not make a good father, whatever his other qualities may be.

On a happier note, I can go away with friends and know I’ll come back to a clean house and well looked after children. In fact, as the messier person in our relationship when I did get back from a week in New York the house was spotless and far nicer than when I’d left it. You don’t want to end up tied to the house and resentful, shouldering all the childcare because he can’t manage basic and simple tasks.

My husband taught me how to do a lot of housework when we moved in together. I had low standards and I’d never done chores myself. I learned quickly and took responsibility. There isn’t actually anything difficult about it!

Sorry, I stopped at you had to teach him to make a cup of tea

Yes I wondered about that. If he drinks tea, what did he do before he got a domestic servant (partner). Ok he could order in food but did he also order in tea or coffee every time???!!

SunwhereareyouShowyourself Sounds awful! Poor you.

MIL has admitted she is "old fashioned"...

This was me and dh 25 years ago. (Dh is from a culture where men don't do any housework full stop.)

The good news is ... men can actually LEARN stuff if they want. Now dh and I share household tasks pretty equally and dh is betterat some of it than me. My advice:

1. Start absolutely as you want to go on in the future. We had a few rows in the early days when for example, I wouldn't iron his work shirts just because I was 'better' at ironing than him.
2. Accept some lower standards while he learns. If he cooks and burns the food or ruins a saucepan don't sweat it and take over. We all did that.
3. Accept that you will have different standards about different things. Dh cleans the loos in a different way to me which isn't good enough but I live with it his way.
4. If he doesn't 'see' stuff try the 'we' need to do X, Y and Z rather than 'you never do X, Y Z. My dh will usually respond with ^Well if you do X, I'll do Y'

it can work. Male chauvinism isn't a hereditary characteristic.

If you both sit down and agree lists of what needs to be done, on what day, and who's doing it, that should remove the need to 'remind him' of things needing doing.

It sounds like he thinks you are a bit thick tbh.

You really believe he can't remove the sheets from a bed or make a cup of tea?

Good luck!

Deathraystare I couldn't believe it. He doesn't drink it and never made it for anyone. He does now.

I just read the OP to my 16yo DS. He wants to know what you mean when you say he doesn't know what he is doing when he makes a sandwich? Does he put bread then bread then filling?

He’s coming across as all talk, no action.

Seriously, has he never watched anyone make a cup of tea at home, work, or at a cafe?
And really has he never washed his own clothes?
If he was serious about his feminist side, then as others have said he’d either google it or use common sense. Just in case you doubt it - has he got a computer, smart phone, tablet, x-box, other gadgets? And can he use them? Seriously, setting up a new phone takes longer and is harder than chucking clothes in the wash.
What would he do if he lived alone?

I will add though, that if I worked every weekend for a month - so 30 days in a row? - I would not have the energy for housework when I got home and it sounds like a cleaner would be eminently sensible. He needs to know how to run a house and be able to do it, but whilst working horrendous hours then outsourcing the cleaning is a really good idea. I wouldn’t deny him any downtime at all.

TheFallenMadonna Just all over the place, like something out of Mr Bean. I'm sure your DS does a great sandwich :-)

bitout

My dh doesn't see stuff either. You have to view it as brainwashing.. He has been brought up like this...

WomanEqualsAdultHumanFemale
It's not helpful when people say things like "don't have children with this man" to be honest.

It’s probably the most helpful piece of advice you will ever get tbh. You’ll wish you’d listened in 20 years after raising his children with him “not knowing” how to do any of it.

Couldn't agree more. If he's intelligent enough to hold down a responsible job I can't see any possible excuse for him be pathetically inept at home except in his mind it's 'wimmins' work - unimportant in his world. Personally I have never been attracted to a man child but fortunately for them plenty of women are, obviously including you OP.

Good luck being lumbered with ALL the housework and ALL future childcare for however long you remain with this man.

CaptainBrickbeard yes exactly, thanks for spotting that. This is why I am thinking I won't discuss this with him again until our holiday in two weeks, as it just seems pointless raising at at 1am when he's climbing into bed.

Before we met he lived in a rather stereotypical shared house with a load of guys who relied on Deliveroo for everything so he didn't pick up many household skills (FFS).

Did he also live in filthy clothes and never change his sheets? Or did he, in fact, manage those things, even if a bit erratically, when his mummy and his substitute mummy weren't at hand?

Well yes. Because making a sandwich is utterly self explanatory. As is tidying up afterwards if you can be arsed. I can't believe that you believe an intelligent, respectful man would struggle with it.