to worry I have no choice but to become my MIL around the house

[JammyDodger99]

I will preface this by saying my DP is absolutely wonderful and I love him dearly. We are engaged to be married this year and have been living together under a year.

Again, to preface - our relationship is strong and healthy, and we never fight- our communication is good and if we ever disagree we are good at working things through by talking calmly.

So to the problem... That said, he is pretty hopeless at "practical" tasks including housework and DIY. My MIL raised him in a totally sexist environment where the boys were totally cooked and catered for and the girls looked after the house. She never expected the boys to lift a finger for anything and cleaned up all around them.. (I still see this in evidence when we visit her where her other DS are still at home). Thankfully, DP is intelligent and enlightened and realises this was completely ridiculous (and that we will not raise any future DC in this way)! He doesn't want to perpetuate this inequality in our household or with future DCs and would describe himself as a feminist.

However, his upbringing has left him without skills in this area, and I have had to teach him the very basics, including how to make a cup of tea! Before we met he lived in a rather stereotypical shared house with a load of guys who relied on Deliveroo for everything so he didn't pick up many household skills (FFS).

He is not great at doing things because he doesn't notice when they need doing e.g. doesn't automatically think about the laundry or cleaning the surfaces, and his expectations are generally lower than mine as well e.g. he would be okay about leaving a dirty plate on the side which I wouldn't. I don't want to make excuses but I genuinely don't think he notices half the time.

To his credit, whenever I ask him he immediately helps out, but it doesn't come naturally, and so I worry I will become a nag after years of this. He also needs guidance and can't cook a meal from scratch or even do the laundry without repeated instruction! FFS I know this sounds like a nightmare!!! He is so wonderful though, supportive of me, kind, funny etc and this is the only problem I have with our relationship!

DP and I both work, however he works reeeally long hours leaving at about 8.30 and not usually getting home until 10pm-12miidnight (and sometimes after). He also sometimes has to work through the weekend but not always. My hours are much more normal so I tend to have evenings available. Therefore I obviously do end up with the lion's share of housework / household chores which, on balance, I think is fair enough since I have more time.

When tackling a household chore at the weekend when he is there, I have found myself thinking "it will be easier / quicker to do this myself" but then I feel like I will start doing everything and basically become my MIL. (please no).

When we have discussed this my DP is open and agrees he should contribute fairly and is always very sorry he hasn't been proactive about it. DP says he wants to be reminded but I have said I'm not sure I should have to - not sure if this is realistic. DP's other suggestion is that because he is time poor he would be happy to pay a cleaner to do his share so I do less. (DP earns considerably more than me so could afford it - very lucky I know).

I don't know how I feel about all of this. He is genuinely not a lazy bastard, he works really hard for us both and is super supportive in every other way. Sometimes I watch him when he's doing some task I've asked him to help with, like changing the bedsheets or making a sandwich, and it's clear he really has no clue what he is doing!! If I didn't have to be on the receiving end I would find it hilarious, watching him fumble around bless him. E.g. When I asked him to cook some pasta he put the saucepan on the hob with no water!! Lol! I just assumed he would know how, this but it is tragic!

Again, I don't mean to paint him out the wrong way - he is in fact highly intelligent and in a very responsible job! Lol.

I have a feeling this must be a fairly common issue with men who have been raised in this way. What can I do or how should we both handle this as we embark on married life? Does anyone else have experience of being with a man raised in this way?

Don't even start me on how we will cope if and when babies come along. I am fully aware of how much we will need to support one another so we stay together, and don't crumble under the lack of sleep and hellish hard work of a baby. I guess I am trying to work out how we can move forward to pave the way for this as well.

Any advice from those with a similar experience gratefully received. X

Ye Gods! So, the man lacks a whole host of skills and is not proactive about noticing things that need doing and some posters are advocating he be burned at the stake!. OP has already said, the guy wants to learn but its an uphill task - and some posters accuse the guy of deceit in this respect. Misandrists unbound - clearly. What's actually needed is lists and a regime in place (i.e. certain things to be done at certain times on certain days) and - from OP - lot's of training, patience and encouragement. He'll get there even if it takes a long time - celebrate the improvements and don't get too frustrated OP. Also, don't give up and just do it yourself - that won't make either of you happy despite the misandristic comments of some folk on the thread.

Or alternatively you could get rid of him and get a dog, which would be more likely to respond to the training.

I haven't rtft I gave up at the point when he boiled pasta without water. No one is that dense, it is quite clearly a deliberate ploy to be looked after. Why do women have such low expectations of men?

Tell him to grow up or its over op.

I think your problem op, reading your replies, is that you see this all as fixable and you don't realise (despite being told by women who know) just what a boring, resentment inducing, passion killing, soul destroying problem this will be for you in 5, 10, 20 years time.

He won't change. They rarely do. Especially, in my experience, the ones who are on "a promotion track" at work having their egos massaged there and enabled there too.

But hey, good luck in "training" him.

Just start being bad at housework yourself OP. That's my strategy. Plus a cleaner and no ironing

i'm pretty sure he is an intelligent man, whom if he wanted could go on you tube and find a video on how to cook pasta,

stop making excuses for him OP

I've just asked a 6 year old who I have never shown how to cook pasta what to do. She explained you needed to add kettle water to boil it in a pan

Think mrsdv is spot on. This situation is so ridiculous it's hard to believe

He must have changed his own sheets and washed his own clothes when living in a shared house?

Does anyone else have experience of being with a man raised in this way?

Yes. My DH was raised in a very patriarchal society where women do all of the housework, cooking, childcare etc. His mum and sisters did everything at home, while he was free to focus on his studies and enjoy his free time.

However, he was 28 by the time I met him, so he had had a good few years to reflect on his upbringing and realise how "ridiculous" it was. In the meantime, he had taught himself how to cook, clean and do laundry like any other functioning adult. He is perfectly capable.

Your DP is using his upbringing as an excuse. Stop blaming your MIL for his laziness and start demanding that he behaves like an adult.

He sounds lazy, how did he function outside of his mum’s house then? I wouldn’t marry him till this is sorted. And the hours he works would be an issue too for me. What’s he going to be like when you have kids?

I wouldn’t be with this person, it would be a deal breaker for me i’m Afraid. Give him an ultimatum and see if he can buck his ideas up? My dad came from a similar household as did my mum. They had more traditional roles with dad out working a manual job long hours and my mum working part time/ looking after us day to day. And you know what? My dad learned pretty quickly how to cook, do laundry and clean the house properly, iron his shirts etc. Because there was no way my mum was moving from one house where she had to run around after her brothers to one where she had to run around after a husband. My dad pulled his weight at home ( we all did) and to this day his house is spotless. And he’s a great grandad who can look after the grandkids in his own, all day without endless instructions. You know, he’s a grown up basically despite his upbringing.

Either he is as thick as pig shit (in which case it's a wonder he can hold down a job), or he is having you on and his wonderful caring warm brillant attitude will change once he has a ring on it. Sad but true, and I would add that he has you exactly where he wants judging by your gushing description. He pays lip service to equality etc but pretends to be so stupid that he can't pour hot water over a teabag. Happy days!

But he lived without you or his mother you said...
He can't make a sandwich, wash/iron his clothes or change his bed covers? I don't believe that- who did it for him when he lives in the house share??

OP My DH went to boarding schools, were he was taught by his matron to change bed sheets. He has the best technique ever I think he’s having you on.

If he is intelligent and doing well at work, he will be constantly learning new tasks there, therefore he can learn new tasks at home. I'd be making that clear.
Write a rota, make it fair based on your working hours. If he asked how to do something show him once, then he can google it.
It's not because of MIL, he'd never get away with that crap with his boss and he knows it, so why is he pulling that shit with you?

I was raised by a mum who didn't get any of us to do the housework. She often speaks about how if she could go back in time she would have made us do more. My mum was very obsessive over housework and all we had to do was dry up. She preferred to do it all herself.

When I moved out I had never changed a bed sheet, or put washing on or any of the basic things.

However, me and my brother just got on with it when we moved out. Used our common sense and learnt how to do the things we hadn't done before. I taught myself how to cook. I remember cooking my first meal. It was cottage pie, I boiled the mince in a saucepan full of water then added some gravy granules to the whole thing. It was awful but I didn't do it again. Some meals I just picked up from watching my mum cook.

There is no excuse for your partner's behaviour OP.

Thing is OP (if you are still reading) the issue isn't that your DP doesn't do housework as you described it.

It's that he doesn't seem, from what you've described, to do anything apart from his job.

For example, he didn't know how to send a birthday card to his brother?? You then took it upon yourself to find a solution for him. You directed him to Moonpig and you say you had to encourage him through the process. You categorise this to yourself as being different to his mother and stopping this habit of needing to be babied. It really wasn't. You did exactly what his mother did but just in a more modern way.

Truthfully, you did not have to do anything about the card. You did not need to have one thought in your own head about your DP sending a card to his family member. It's his thing - to do or not do.

Please try and see how things really are between you and him. I am not asking you to answer on here but if your wedding is planned at end of year - how much of the work of organising this has he done? Again be honest with yourself. I don't know the details, but it would be easy to imagine that you have taken on almost everything, especially the mental load. It will be justified because his hours are so long...

None of us can make you do anything but please be honest with yourself about how things are and how much you already do for him. Things that there should be no need to be doing for another adult.

I am not saying he isn't a lovely person or that your love for each other feels enough. It clearly does at the minute.

But if you see yourself as a feminist and want to have an equitable relationship then something needs to badly change. That love you feel for each other will not be enough. You will be hindered almost all the time you are at home, and the time you spend together, by this cloud above you alerting you to the fact that this is not how you wanted to live and this is not how you wanted a relationship to be.

That he is like this and has the OP convinced he is a "feminist" indicates sly fuckwittery of the highest order.

Good luck OP.
I've no doubt you can both sort this out.
He does sound like a good guy and he will pull his weight in the future.

Imagine having children with this man and then something terrible happening to you so that he was now entirely responsible for raising the children. But he doesn’t know how to wash their clothes or make their dinner. How cruel would that be to give children a parent that was so utterly incompetent that he would neglect them.

He needs to learn, but part of that learning process is learning to remember what needs to be done. He needs to take responsibility for this, not to rely on human reminders.

Make a list of chores. Automate everythign possible, then divide what is left into daily tasks and weekly tasks and monthly tasks. Get him to work out a way of remembering to do things each day of the week.

What I can't understand is why people are going on about teaching and learning. These are things you just do. You don't have to be taught- you just do them. You don't have to be taught that if you donnt wash up the plates there won't be a clean plate for the next meal.

I’m genuinely puzzled that an adult male who has lived in a house share and worked full time had to be shown how to make a cup of tea. I wonder if he kind of likes you in MIL role, a bit of a mummy’s boy kind of thing?

I've just asked a 6 year old who I have never shown how to cook pasta what to do. She explained you needed to add kettle water to boil it in a pan

I’ve been inspired by that and was asking Dd this morning about all kinds of chores - yea, she know plenty!

sly fuckwittery of the highest order

I will endeavour to use this wonderful sentiment in a sentence at some point today!!

I'm sorry op, I know you don't want to hear this but you will end up mothering him. I know because my DH is exactly the same. I feel I'm forever nagging him to do something that to me is blindingly obvious. Also he can't cook for shit (not even a tin of soup ffs).

It does grind you down after a while I have to say