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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Inheritance angst - shocked & angry

572 replies

hoopyloopy2 · 29/04/2018 13:43

MIL died like last year and we are just getting to grips now with the details of her estate. FIL died 13 years ago.

To cut a long story short, it’s emerged that she gave a very large amount of money (hundreds of thousands of pounds) to BIL a few years’ ago after he divorced and to enable him to start his own business. DH and I have never received money from his parents - in fact we didn’t even know she had that kind of money.

It’s become clear that DH’s other brother has also received financial support over the years but nowhere near the same level. DH is certainly not more financial comfortable than the other two now or in the past - so there’s no logic as to why he/we were overlooked. Their mum did play favourites over the years, but there was no rift or issue (that we know of) that would explain why she should have skewed things in such an extreme way.

DH has confronted BIL after working all this out by going through years of bank accounts. BIL says it was a loan that he was intending to pay back at some point, but he hasn’t. Issue now is whether this is taken into account when dividing up the estate, DH & I think it should be as amounts to 2/3rds of her savings. MIL did not suggest it should be in her will. But it is SUCH a significant amount of money. BIL is embarrassed & defensive at being found out, and is implying DH is being nosey by going through their mum’s bank accounts in detail - ridiculously.

To put things in context, DH and I are in a financially unstable situation now. He isn’t working after being made redundant several months ago, for the 3rd time in a few years, all very stressful & difficult. I work but we cannot survive on my salary alone. DH has become disillusioned with his line of work and would dearly love the kind of financial support that BIL was given to make choices -ie start his own business or make a career change. We would never have dreamt of asking his mum to bail us out while she was alive though. But it seems BIL had no such qualms - this has shocked us both.

So are we BU to ask for this large payment to BIL to be recognised in how the estate is now divvied up? Ie that he gets a lot less as a result. I know their mum was entitled to spend her money as she liked, so there is no legal case here. I am worried that asking will cause major upsets & divisions but at the same time, it feels profoundly unfair & will fester with DH (and me) if we just let this go.

OP posts:
CheeseyToast · 30/04/2018 22:08

You sound like a vulture. No doubt you will plough ahead with this terrible plan and cause an enormous rift and the family will never recover. Hope it's worth it.

MrsJackHackett · 30/04/2018 22:08

If it was a minor sum I might feel more empathy, but if what OP stands to inherit isn't enough, then blimy. It shows that people are conditioned to look after their own family units and screw anyone else. Maybe MIL felt DH had more luck in life than his his DB, wanting to afford him similar opportunities.

I know when it comes to it I stand to get nothing when either parent dies, my siblings getting whatever. I should remember to get some popcorn as they squabble over who had it best, who deserves what. I'll make my own way in life.

Bluelady · 30/04/2018 22:09

It's to be hoped that nobody has named some posters here to be executors of their will if they're going to balk at doing what the law requires of them.

EventNotInData · 30/04/2018 22:12

Sorry? Doing what the law requires and what the BIL agrees is appropriate is a “terrible plan”?

roundaboutthetown · 30/04/2018 22:15

It's a shame it's not a non-relative who is executor of the will, because they wouldn't be so silly as to think it is greedy to try to establish the true intentions of the testator, nor so inclined to think that she wanted to financially benefit one child colossally more than the others. As an outsider, I would say interpreting it that way is by far the most likely way to be entirely contrary to her actual intentions! Even the ds who benefited isn't saying that was her intention, so why on earth complete strangers on the internet want to ensure the OP's family don't get what the entire family agree the mil intended, I don't know!

Helmetbymidnight · 30/04/2018 22:18

Oh who gives a shit about the facts, eh mrs Hackett?

So much more fun to make up stories about the op!

croprotationinthe13thcentury · 30/04/2018 22:22

Personally I find it very odd that a mother could treat her children so differently. Fuck the “her money, her choice,” argument, unless there has been a massive fallout - ? - surely she should have been fairer.
Im any case, I would be cutting ties completely with BIL after all this.

TalkinPeece · 30/04/2018 22:26

croprotation
please read the full thread

I am the person who said Her money ~ her choice
I also made clear that I've been on the wrong end of such a situation
AND
I'm a tax accountant

I'm glad the the OP's DH will get an external expert in

AJPTaylor · 30/04/2018 22:53

Lets hope that your dbil sticks to the line its a loan. I do wonder, if she named your dh as executor she expected him to identify it and sort it out?

GnomeDePlume · 01/05/2018 06:15

People saying that if MiL had wanted to recognise the sum paid to BiL then she would have done so miss the point. Few people expect to die just yet. There is always next week, next month, next year to make proper arrangements. Until there isn't and then it's too late.

Wills get written and then forgotten about. I was surprised when I re-read my will written 17 years ago. The people nominated as executors are now dead.

I have now rewritten my will but have still to get round to signing it.

IrmaFayLear · 01/05/2018 09:00

Agree 100%, Gnomedeplume.

In fact, as people age, ime they become ever more convinced that mortality doesn’t apply to them. When the pil’s affairs had to be sorted out, bil found a solicitor’s note to the family saying that the pil had actively refused inheritance tax planning and that they would think about it in a few years’ time. They were 89 at the time!

Furthermore, most parents don’t want to rock the boat and have Big Conversations with their dcs. If they have slipped one dc some money, they’d rather it was all sorted out when they’re gone rather than upset the apple cart and cause any rifts. Anything for a quiet life.

SunwheretheFareyou · 01/05/2018 09:35

gnome millions of wills will be thus so.

But they are legal documents that must be up held or they dont mean much.

Its down to the individual to keep on top of it - one cant have a situation where the law has provision for those who just " never got round to up dating their will but...."

Maybe it should be taught in schools Grin

I absolutely agree its something you do and forget about however...its a hugely important legal document and the onus is on the individual to keep it up dated.

PrimeraVez · 01/05/2018 09:55

We had a similar situation a few years back when DH's mum died.

DH was the executor of her will and when he looked into her accounts, discovered that she had been giving lots of generous hand outs to DH's brother in the year before her death.

DH and his brother were always very close, and DH had zero clue this had been going on. When asked about it, DH's brother was very sheepish about the whole thing and admitted that their mum had 'helped out here and there' with a holiday, a new car, work on their house etc.

DH decided to drop the subject as afterall, it was his mum's decision what she did with her money. But it has definitely tarnished DH's relationship with his brother which is sad because they were once very, very close.

I think what DH found the most hurtful was that it felt like it had all been done quite secretively - DH quickly noticed that his mum had been withdrawing a lot of cash in her last year and his brother stayed silent when DH queried it. It was only MIL's partner that gave it away with a throwaway comment about how 'generous' she had been.

mrcharlie · 01/05/2018 12:09

My family is likely to end up this way
A one of 4 siblings, 2 of us left home and through hard work and sacrifice managed to stand on our own 2 feet, the other 2 simply bleated constantly until they were both given a free house!! Both the in laws are proper scavenging gold diggers with a sense of entitlement that has to be seen to be believed
The 2 of us that left home now have nothing to do with either our parents or spoilt siblings - we both want nothing

I'll have no chuck with parasitic scum.

ajandjjmum · 01/05/2018 12:35

Often the way mrcharlie.

DP always made it clear that what they had would be divided equally between DB and myself. Neither of us would have wished differently.

DH is one of 3 - he has always worked his socks of - as have I - and we have a good quality of life, and more importantly, a great relationship with our adult DC. According to both SILs, we're just lucky; SIL 1 told her parents years ago that they shouldn't leave anything to DH as 'he doesn't need it', a thought she has reiterated to her sick DM very recently. That's fine - at least we know what her motivation is.

All the money in the world won't make a warped outlook come right.

XJerseyGirlX · 01/05/2018 13:15

My brother also took £100K off my mum & dad because of lots of failed financial choices he had made. As annoyed as I am about it, I will not be making him pay it back out of his inheritance when they die.

If they choose to change their will and add that £100K that's up to them, but I will be respecting their will and wishes.

If OP's MIL was bothered about it, she would have changed her will.

Please respect her wishes, you sound like a vulture

BettyBaggins · 01/05/2018 13:51

Ops husband has done exactly what the law requires of an executor and is not a vulture. Bil has admitted it was a loan and looks like he will 'balance the books' with the encouragement of professional advice.

This thread is nuts and very revealing from those who wouldnt seek a fair conclusion!

LuluMarie · 01/05/2018 19:22

In my case, my brother and his wife (very comfortable financially and super entitled) repeatedly took money from my father, who is still with us. My father is generous and listened to my brother's whining, he paid the deposit for my brother's necessarily large house, my brother took my father's car because he wanted it, so on and so on.

I had no concerns about my brother receiving something that I did not, we were raised to understand that one of getting something does not give the other a right to anything ("If she gets a thick ear do you want one too?" Good point Dad!), plus my Dad was more than supportive financially and otherwise to me when I was in university and during a time of serious ill health.

The difference is, as soon as I had a chance, I gave my father all the money back, plus as much extra as I could get him to take from me! He worked all his life to support us and should have been able to retire, but couldn't as he had remortgaged to give my brother, who was also taking five figure sums from me, money for the extravagant house deposit. So I paid off my Dad's mortgage i.e. the house I was able to live in so I was hardly a saint, plus it wasn't my father's debt, it was my brother's! My brother told me that he had taken the money as a loan but had no intention of paying it back. So I didn't expect to see it again either, but my priority was my father. I also replaced my father's car, after my brother borrowed and did not return his. Again, I'm no saint and it was my pleasure, my father bought me my first car and I loved that clapped out usually didn't start beautiful freedom, but I do have fundamental disagreements with the way my brother behaves.

This became the crux of the matter. Whilst I do "need" the money my brother has taken to be returned to me, he doesn't have the self respect or respect for anyone else to do this. So I wrote it off under I behaved well, shame on him. My father is with us, as always it is none of my business what my father does with his money, my brother has taken massive advantage to the point of preventing my father from retiring, fortunately I was able to step in, but I was not impressed with my brother's behaviour towards my father. As for any inheritance, I don't want any. I would not swap a family member for cash or property or whatever. So I would rather my Dad lives it up and spends his money on whatever makes him happy, even if that is my spoilt twat of a brother, so long as he is OK!

My brother and I however no longer speak. I reminded him once, several years ago, of a smaller debt of the many he owed me and I needed for, get this, medical expenses, but he ignored me. He spent the money on a holiday instead. I believe cheeky life endangering f-er is the phrase! In the end, my brother will never want to return anything, either to myself or my father. My Dad is doing fine and his business is his business. I didn't object to the disparity when my Dad said he wanted to change his will to include my brother's children in a way that would technically disadvantage me, because it's my Dad's will and none of my business, I have no right to anything of his! I don't understand this feeling of entitlement and obligation in a will. I do recognise the bad behaviour of a sibling clearly and have been on the receiving end of it, but bad behaviour does not justify bad behaviour. I can't object to my brother and his wife being entitled and greedy, then state my own entitlement! Even if in my case it was return of money loaned by me that they have and can afford and I need lol. Life is too short.

I'd say to the original poster, be aware that arguments like this can ruin relationships forever. My brother now avoids me out of guilt for his behaviour and probably because he wants to forget he took so much money or avoid anyone who knows he did! I meanwhile was suitably disgusted with my brother, not for what he took from me as it is only money and not life, but for the way he treated my father and the difficulties he deliberately caused me.

So my choice was legal action, but then I would have been a bit of a twat, reasonably or otherwise, or let it go. It bothered me for a while, again it is the treatment rather than the money, but I'm over it. My brother meanwhile has to deal with what he did (and lie about my whereabouts). Or maybe he doesn't care and is happy to have been bank rolled by my father and myself! At the end of the day, you can only be responsible for your own behaviour and when it comes to money, tread carefully!

Definitely get some legal advice as to whether this "business loan" is part of your MIL's estate, if so you have a clear solution that technically isn't your fault so would be nice, the seven year time limit of course matters as to whether it was defined as a gift or a loan based on tax paid (unlikely!) and definitely consider, plus have your husband really consider, how he wants his relationship to be with his brothers from now on.

Best of luck (and hey if it gets really bad, hit me up for cash, I used my credit card and overdraft to pay for the expensive selfishness of my brother and SIL - in name only - clearly I am a soft touch)

TheyBuiltThePyramids · 01/05/2018 20:36

For christ's sake. The OP is not being a vulture. These are life changing sums, money that must have come from GPs or the FIL if they have no idea how she had so much. It is blatantly unfair that one child out of 3 benefits to the detriment of the others especially as there is a tricky IHT issue to sort. The BIL needs to stand up and sort this so he can keep a good relationship with his brothers.

LuluMarie · 01/05/2018 21:39

I don't think the OP is being a vulture at all (watch your language TheyBuiltThePyramids, no need!).

It is not at all blatantly unfair that children benefit unequally from parents. No one has a right to dictate another person's finances. It's very reasonable to feel hurt in this situation, but there is no entitlement, ever! If the BIL was going to give up money and his business, wouldn't he have done it by now. It seems the OP is wondering how to move forward, meaning ball in their court. Many things to consider, all helpful things suggested here, other than the "BIL needs to stand up". Subjective. Unlikely.

Wars need to end and apparently sheets need to be changed less often, it doesn't mean it is ever going to happen. Real world time. The OP is looking for help with decisions and consequences.

Peartree17 · 02/05/2018 13:20

Lulu, you said you were loaning your brother 'five-figure sums of cash'. So loaning him lumps of £10,000+ at a time. Do you mind me asking, on an anonymous forum, 1) how on earth you could afford such lavish loans - especially if you expected them never to be repaid, so really gifts and 2) why on earth you decided to treat your 'greedy, entitled' brother in this way when he already had form, in your view, for abusing your father's generosity?

SunwhereareyouShowyourself · 02/05/2018 13:33

I think most of all this underlies why unless LD involved people should treat children fairly in a will not because one has more need.
This man had no need and now he does.

PomPomtheGreat · 03/05/2018 01:23

You don't sound like a vulture at all. Hopefully the BIL will do the morally right thing but wills bring out the worst in people so possibly he won't and you'll just have to rise above it. Fingers crossed for you that he behaves decently.

LittleCreature · 03/05/2018 08:36

You have my great sympathy.

Years ago I was a probate lawyer for a while and it was thoroughly depressing to be honest. Truly brings out the worst in some people.

I think it is a perfectly natural reaction to feel stunned and hurt by this. The estate has literally been given to one sibling, via an undocumented loan when the intention was clearly that the siblings should inherit equally.

Its all well and good people saying, she should have documented the loan or she would have changed the Will if she wanted to - but in my experience this doesn't often happen. A will is signed, a loan is made, promises to pay back are given, life continues, nothing gets actioned and then a mess is left and feelings are hurt.

Parents struggle to document loans to children, as it hints at distrust. Loans are often made to siblings without the knowledge of the rest of the family. For an easy life.

Hardly anyone, in my experience regularly changes their Will once made as the intention is you try and make it future proof, to account for deaths, successions etc. Will changes tend to be triggered by lawyers - following significant house purchases or divorces etc.

IrmaFayLear · 03/05/2018 09:45

Yes, I posted upthread that dsis told me she had “loaned” her ds a large sum of money for a house, but didn’t want her dd to know. She was umming and aahing about how she supposed she should change her will to take account of this, but then dd would find out about it, even if things were evened up in the inheritance.

I can understand totally how the OP’s situation has arisen.