Inheritance angst - shocked & angry

[hoopyloopy2]

MIL died like last year and we are just getting to grips now with the details of her estate. FIL died 13 years ago.

To cut a long story short, it’s emerged that she gave a very large amount of money (hundreds of thousands of pounds) to BIL a few years’ ago after he divorced and to enable him to start his own business. DH and I have never received money from his parents - in fact we didn’t even know she had that kind of money.

It’s become clear that DH’s other brother has also received financial support over the years but nowhere near the same level. DH is certainly not more financial comfortable than the other two now or in the past - so there’s no logic as to why he/we were overlooked. Their mum did play favourites over the years, but there was no rift or issue (that we know of) that would explain why she should have skewed things in such an extreme way.

DH has confronted BIL after working all this out by going through years of bank accounts. BIL says it was a loan that he was intending to pay back at some point, but he hasn’t. Issue now is whether this is taken into account when dividing up the estate, DH & I think it should be as amounts to 2/3rds of her savings. MIL did not suggest it should be in her will. But it is SUCH a significant amount of money. BIL is embarrassed & defensive at being found out, and is implying DH is being nosey by going through their mum’s bank accounts in detail - ridiculously.

To put things in context, DH and I are in a financially unstable situation now. He isn’t working after being made redundant several months ago, for the 3rd time in a few years, all very stressful & difficult. I work but we cannot survive on my salary alone. DH has become disillusioned with his line of work and would dearly love the kind of financial support that BIL was given to make choices -ie start his own business or make a career change. We would never have dreamt of asking his mum to bail us out while she was alive though. But it seems BIL had no such qualms - this has shocked us both.

So are we BU to ask for this large payment to BIL to be recognised in how the estate is now divvied up? Ie that he gets a lot less as a result. I know their mum was entitled to spend her money as she liked, so there is no legal case here. I am worried that asking will cause major upsets & divisions but at the same time, it feels profoundly unfair & will fester with DH (and me) if we just let this go.

roundabout sadly not everyone does this, and even more sadly some people are affected later in life by health problems such as dementia which can distort their perceptions long before the condition is diagnosed. Equally some unscrupulous people have been known to influence older people as they near death....

All of which makes it more likely that mil did not intend one child to benefit financially hugely more than the others, as it is unlikely she was senile when the will was written, but she clearly seriously lacked any judgement when she parted with 2/3 of her savings with not even a letter or note to say why...

Apologies for the slight derail but we should all seriously consider making a lasting power of attorney. It shouldn't be the preserve of the elderly. Sudden illness or accident can strike at any age.

As do I roundabout - my DC are in their 20's, POA's are in place, Wills up to date and conversations have been had!

I found your comment 'You have to be stupendously silly/financially illiterate to loan or gift someone hundreds of thousands of pounds and leave no written records of your intention or purpose' offensive, as you are slating the decisions of an elderly lady who you didn't know.

The outcome of the situation relies upon the morals of all her DC.

This is one advantage of having only one child.

Money truly is the root of all evil.

Your husband shouldn't have been going through bank statements. It's almost like it was assumed the other two had help and he's got figure A for one brother, figure B for another, expecting them to go without inheritance as they've already had their share.

What she did with her money was her business.

Why did DH look at the statements in the first place?

I think you divide it as advised in the will or lose DH's inheritance in legal costs. Whilst BIL does nothing but ping back letters saying well the will states...

I should add, your DH must have wanted to ask his mother how the business came about but didn't, as he would have been told it was nothing to do with him. Why wait till she's dead to go digging?

Mrs its his duty as executor to know about any gifts made in the last seven years.

@MrsJackHackett In the nicest possible way, please RTFT. Executors have to do things like go through statements to ensure the full value of an estate is known, debts settled etc etc

Executors HAVE to look at bank statements to complete the probate/IHT forms. Why do people keep harping on about it?

It's cancel the cheque all over again.

We had a similar situation with SIL being given 2 lots of £50k by PIL, one lot as she wanted a large house in the country and then another £50k after her divorce so that she was mortgage free. The house in the country was sold as part of her divorce and whilst there was enough for her to buy a 2 bedroom terrace or 3 bedroom flat outright, she insisted on needing a 3 bed detached house. Her children were grown up and one literally lives around the corner and has never stayed over with the grandchildren so she's never used the three bedrooms. She works part time and refused to increase her hours. She has also had, in the past 8 years 2 cars bought by FIL and a holiday paid for each year, plus cash whenever there is a big expenditure needed such as s new boiler. She constantly lobbied PIL for money. We know this as PIL were open and honest about this, said she had worn them down and it would be dealt with and made fair in the will. That never happened as one died suddenly of a heart attack and the other had dementia, so never changed the will & care home fees wiped out most of the inheritance anyway. We're okay with it as we've ensured we have enough and have always stood on our own 2 feet despite my husband being made redundant more than once etc. However we have a very poor relationship with SIL and little to do with her. She was very dishonest about the money, she tried to deny getting anything (the purchase of a large item came up in probate), her attitude that others must pay for her, her lack of care for her parents (their words that she wore them down really upset me) and her generally grasping nature.

OP here, thanks for all the replies. Such a variation of responses which have truly made me think deeply about it all. People really do have very different views on this! As I said upthread, we are planning not to try and force the issue but just to hope that BIL will balance things, now that DH & the other BIL are aware. His initial reaction when asked about it by DH was that it was a loan & he would be happy to “work it all out” in dividing up the rest of the estate. So we’re moving forwards hoping that remains the case and, as it’s now even more complicated with the iht implications, DH is seeking expert tax advice.

robynadair I feel for you and your dh. We are the same, have made our own way in life despite a number of setbacks without asking to be bailed out. It’s difficult when siblings operate so differently to each other on that issue.

DH is seeking expert tax advice
Good call.

Get an independent expert to assess the estate and inform each of the boys what they owe / will get

emotion removed
sanity saved

@hoopyloopy2 sorry that you experienced the same, sadly I think it's quite common as it's happened to a couple of my friends as well. I think it comes down to what your values are in the end. My SIL is in a bit of a pickle now as she can't afford to run the house she's in, won't downsize, and is only one unexpected bill away from significant money issues, keeps hinting heavily for us to fund a holiday and give her money in the little contact we have with her, has no pension to speak of, and at 58 is now trying intermittently to find full time work or more hours at her present place of employment all to no avail. So in the end, receiving that money made her more dependent and vulnerable.

Fair point, ajandjjmum - apologies for letting my bad mood this pm affect the way I phrased it! However, I did also say "or hugely trusting" which you chose not to quote! I do not for a single second believe the mil was malicious in her actions, nor that she deliberately and calculatedly tried to benefit one child over and above the others. So if people are interested in her actual intentions, I find it interesting that so many people on this thread interpret those as being that she did want one of her children to benefit hugely more from her largesse than any of the others.

sadly not everyone does this, and even more sadly some people are affected later in life by health problems such as dementia which can distort their perceptions long before the condition is diagnosed. Equally some unscrupulous people have been known to influence older people as they near death

The High court has long recognised that a testator suffering diagnosed but mild dementia can make still make a valid Will.
We all age, physically and mentally and decisions made in ones 20s or 30s can seem utterly crazy at 50 or 60.
Long my this be the case, i do not want grasping relatives deciding what happens to my estate or my health for that matter.

A Will is a sacrosanct document, few write one with little thought and unless fraud or lack of mental capacity can be proven, it should be upheld and not subject to relatives putting their own interpretation on to the deceased wishes

was it more than 7 years ago and is there a loan agreement? this is a straightforward answer from a solicitor, you should see one.

RTFT!

I principle I agree with you jasjas but the fact is that some illnesses result in disordered thinking and this can manifest itself long before a diagnosis. This may result in decisions being made which don't reflect the true wishes of the testator, because they take a lot as 'given', e.g. that a carer who lives with them will still have a home after they die. And some legal professionals will act even when the matter of capacity has been raised.

jajas1973 - the problem is not with the will, though, it's with the bizarre decision to part with 2/3 of her savings without recording what the intention of that was in writing, which was almost guaranteed to cause problems when she died and was thus no longer around to ask. Either it was a gift or a loan, the only person who can say is the ds who benefited, and he says it was a loan, meaning he owes money to the estate. He could have lied, said it was a gift and entirely flouted her intentions - so much for the will's intention to divide everthing equally being sacrosanct!!

... yes, and people do sometimes assume that the surviving family will 'sort it out' and 'do the right thing'.

I have RTFT & I still find it macabre when OP's family stand to gain such a substantial amount.

Death tends to be macabre Hackett. Should op not do whats right because of the amount? You were upset earlier op's dp did his due diligence which was odd thinking. Taken a loan or inherited lately?

There is nothing macabre about it. The executors are under a legal obligation to settle the estate correctly including any tax liability. To do this they need to have proper knowledge of the estate.

The payment to the BiL was a significant sum with significant tax obligations attached. This was not a few thousand to buy a van and a bag of spanners.

The OP's DH is under legal obligation to ascertain the true nature of the payment. Was it loan, gift or investment?