Inheritance angst - shocked & angry

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MIL died like last year and we are just getting to grips now with the details of her estate. FIL died 13 years ago.

To cut a long story short, it’s emerged that she gave a very large amount of money (hundreds of thousands of pounds) to BIL a few years’ ago after he divorced and to enable him to start his own business. DH and I have never received money from his parents - in fact we didn’t even know she had that kind of money.

It’s become clear that DH’s other brother has also received financial support over the years but nowhere near the same level. DH is certainly not more financial comfortable than the other two now or in the past - so there’s no logic as to why he/we were overlooked. Their mum did play favourites over the years, but there was no rift or issue (that we know of) that would explain why she should have skewed things in such an extreme way.

DH has confronted BIL after working all this out by going through years of bank accounts. BIL says it was a loan that he was intending to pay back at some point, but he hasn’t. Issue now is whether this is taken into account when dividing up the estate, DH & I think it should be as amounts to 2/3rds of her savings. MIL did not suggest it should be in her will. But it is SUCH a significant amount of money. BIL is embarrassed & defensive at being found out, and is implying DH is being nosey by going through their mum’s bank accounts in detail - ridiculously.

To put things in context, DH and I are in a financially unstable situation now. He isn’t working after being made redundant several months ago, for the 3rd time in a few years, all very stressful & difficult. I work but we cannot survive on my salary alone. DH has become disillusioned with his line of work and would dearly love the kind of financial support that BIL was given to make choices -ie start his own business or make a career change. We would never have dreamt of asking his mum to bail us out while she was alive though. But it seems BIL had no such qualms - this has shocked us both.

So are we BU to ask for this large payment to BIL to be recognised in how the estate is now divvied up? Ie that he gets a lot less as a result. I know their mum was entitled to spend her money as she liked, so there is no legal case here. I am worried that asking will cause major upsets & divisions but at the same time, it feels profoundly unfair & will fester with DH (and me) if we just let this go.

The fact the brother has said it was a loan probably means it was a loan. But your mil had probably written it off in her mind. If she made a will and didn't make provision for repayment of this loan then in the absence of any other documentary evidence your husband should just leave it. It's not worth falling out over and would cost more in legal fees if you litigated.

Your husband has raised it with his brother. Assuming it was a loan and not a gift your brother in law is now on notice to do the right thing. If he doesn't do the right thing then you can either forget about money or forget about the brother!

Well if BIL is saying that it was a loan and he intended to pay it back, then there's no problem, is there? Yes you take it into account during the estate splitting, because that fits BIL's intentions too, yes? To pay back his loan?

I think you should stop talking about it, and push that forward. Then if BIL has an issue with it, you simply say 'But you said you intended to pay back the loan and this equates to exactly that? Are you saying that actually no you didn't intend to pay back the loan now, and that furthermore you think your brother should receive, effectively, a lot less than you in your mother's will?

And wait for his answer.

:)

Google the legal presumption against double portions. And take some proper legal advice.

You have to follow what the will says
if the will does not mention a loan
it was a gift

to change the terms of the will involves going to court and losing everything

I understand your in a difficult position but MIL basically gave the money to BIL and it really isn’t any of your business. If the will says to split her remaining estate 3 ways and doesn’t mention anything about the “loan” then that’s what you do. You’re not entitled to this money. Just because your DH wants to change his job doesn’t give him the right to make any demands.

And what about the other brother from the OP? Are you expecting him to pay in his share too? I'm not sure how anyone can work this to be honest. You can't say 'we want your share, but not other brothers'. Its all too messy.

Oh, and -

I am worried that asking will cause major upsets & divisions but at the same time, it feels profoundly unfair & will fester with DH (and me) if we just let this go.

-sounds like it will cause the major upset either way, so it would be better to be on bad terms and financially better off than on bad terms anyway and with BIL getting away scot free with the extra.

TBH I would say that long term, you're more likely to be able to maintain good relations if you go for the cash. Ok, BIL won't like it, but deep down he'll know it's fair and he'll come round. The other way round - I'm not sure your DH would get over it, especially if it leaves you in a financial hole - because it's patently not fair.

Seek legal advice

I realise that the 7 year rule relates to IHT, but depending on the size of the Estate, this may need to be taken into account.

I don't think the OP is asking if she has a legal case - she knows she doesn't (unless she lives in Scotland possibly)

I would definitely ask - BIL knows it would be thr right thing to do, doesn't mean he will do it though, but you've nothing to lose by asking.

I agree with 00100001 - people picking over someone elses money that they made like a vulture is horrible. It's not really anything to do with you anyway, it's between your DH and his brothers. You have to just go through the will and the legal procedures. I would imagine the brother will offer to pay back half or something to shut your DH up.

A friend of mine was in a very similar situation. That's what hapenend. Her and her sibling havent spoken to the other sibling that received more money since.

I guess you have to weigh up what's more important to you. Money or family?

Maybe BIL should weigh that up too...

If the 'hundreds of thousands ' of pounds your BIL has had amounts to 2 thirds of her savings then there is still a generous chunk left in the estate to share, assuming there are additional savings, property etc plenty for you and your OH to start up a business with.

If your OH and his brothers are generally on good terms then unless they volunteer to pay the gifts/loans back into the estate ,or take less to cover it, then my advice would be to leave it unless you want lawyers dipping their beaks and a lifetime of resentments on all sides. It sucks, it's unfair but it is how it is.

This is outrageous. No one has ANY right to their parent's money. Anything that was given before the death is none of your business and should not be mentioned. You actually have no right to any inheritance unless it ìs in the will, in which case you should be very grateful. Anything else will show you up as grasping. and cause huge family rows. It amazes me that offspring can think this way. Shut up and put up. You and you alone should deal with your own finances. It is not down to your in laws to bail you out

IMHO yes the BiL has already had his share, but just get legal advice that simplest, then if you have to write it off painful as it is, then you know where you stand. Who are the executors? Is BiL definitely refusing to acknowledge that he has already had his share, or you suspect he will?

No mention of it in the will, so leave it be. He clearly has no intention of paying it back.

I suspect him and the other btother asked for help and your DH managed without doing so.

It's unfair...but unless a solicitor advises otherwise...I don't think you can do anything.

I would say don't fall out over money. It's not worth it.

If money is not that important and not worth falling out over then BIL should have no issue with forgoing any inheritance to pay back the loan he already took out against the estate, should he?

Did your husband know that he was generally the least favoured of his mother's children? I would imagine it comes as quite a shock if not. Even if he knew, to have it quantified like that is very hurtful.

Unfortunately, unpleasant people frequently make unpleasant wills. It sounds likely that she meant her estate to be divided without any account being taken of the loan. That's hard for your husband, and hurtful behaviour by his mother, but it may just be something you and he have to come to terms with. If you do get legal advice, please ask for a realistic estimate of how much money any sort of legal action is likely to eat up, before you commit yourselves. The last thing you want is for everything eaten up by legal fees and nobody to get anything.

Morally, I think the BIL should somehow repay the loan or it should be taken into account or whatever the procedure is. I doubt it will happen though. Your husband's main choice is about what this means for his relationships with his siblings.

Thanks all. I wasn’t asking if there was a legal case - sure there isn’t. So I know BIL is under no obligation to factor this in now. Just genuinely unsure whether we should suggest that. In reality I think we’ll do what some of you suggest & sit back now and hope BIL does the right thing.

Tricky situation.

If the BIL has said he is intending on paying back the loan then it sounds like there is a chance this might end up ok.

Is it possible to have a meeting with everyone involved? Is there someone in the family who can act as a mediator?

Might it be an idea to let the BIL off some of the debt. It would be better to get some money off him rather than nothing.

I’d also suggest legal advice rather than Mumsnet advice. There are some helpful legal bods who post on Mumsnet but I think you would be better speaking to someone properly.

It could be the case that if the money was given to the brother within 7 years of MILs death, if he treats it as a loan and effectively pays it back to the estate (whether actual money given back or taken into account when splitting what there is) he won't need to pay tax on it (as long as the full amount is under the threshold) but if he decides not to treat it as a loan he would be liable for tax. Sounds messy, and I'm no expert on this, so your husband and his brothers need to get some legal advice.

YANBU but you may have no case.

Perhaps you didn't know much about you BIL's finances-but also, where did you think that he got the money to start the business?

It's often the way-my sibling has had money over the years to help her when struggling & having not struggled, I have had nothing.

Now it's all going in care fees & there will be no inheritance for either of us.

Do I feel pissed off that they have been helped when it was needed?

No as I know that the same would have been available to me.

It’s the scale of it that’s upset us really. We’re not grasping money-oriented people at all (hence never expecting or asking for money while she was alive). But this was a huge loan.