"Drinks rule" is silly or am I being sensitive?

[KungFuPandaWorks]

Hi!
Lost my login to my old account but made a very similar name for this account, So hopefully a few will recognise me.

(Quick run down. Sister kicked niece out over sister's new boyfriend is the crux of it)

In the last 6 weeks, my sister has suddenly wanted a relationship with niece. ( coincidental the reconciliation happened around the birth of baby number 7)
Last night niece went and stayed for the first time since her mum kicking her out, obviously I was wary because my sister is still with her partner who is a dick.

Niece has not long been back, hasn't slept all night because she was helping with the baby (which she says she didnt mind) But a few things stuck out too me, maybe I'm being over sensitive because of the previous situation but I would like opinions.

• a 3 drink rule was put in place. She was only allowed 3 drinks when there (water was included in this) because she can't be drinking all the people's drinks who lives there

• everytime she mentioned me, my child or pregnancy it was made clear by the boyfriend he doesn't want me being mentioned.

• she wasn't allowed a shower or bath because she doesn't live there anymore

• when she was playing with the younger siblings he told her too stop it and go and look after the new baby because that's why she is there.

• Made it obvious he didnt want her there.

• (not really on the best grounds with my sister but it's improved) I got a text about 40 minutes after niece came home, apparently from sister. Asking if neice is planning on making staying over a regular thing, could I start contributing something for when she stays and explain that she must listen,follow and respect what (boyfriends name) says.

She is so excited that her mum is allowing her back around the house and near her siblings, but Im just worried the boyfriend is setting her up to fail. Are the above "rules" Ok? Or am I just being a bitch and not giving him the benefit of the doubt because of last time.

Jesus fucking Christ.. . I read mumsnet and think I've heard it all but.... fuck me... i think this tops it.

I think it was the "she's 11" bit that floored me... poor bloody kid.

You keep hold of her tight. Contact ss and don't let her near that pair of fuckers....

Sheesh...

Your Sis obviously needs some therapy. Stand by her man, but she's either too stupid or blind to the fact they dont stick by her. By the time she's realised, she'll have fucked up her relationship with all her kids, then in about 30 years, she'll be bitching to all and sundry about how her kids dont visit. It'll be entirely all of her own making.

Is the sister aware of everything the boyfriend was saying to your dn?

Is it worth doing a Sarah’s law disclosure here on this man or does ss involvement mean they would be aware anyway ? What’s his past ?

If your sister is aware what’s going on then she is just as culpable and guilty of abuse and neglect.

I totally agree he’s gearing up to escalate the abuse by isolation and demonising your dn. and damaging her self esteem and breaking that mother bond

Call ss make them aware

I’ve been that child going into care wat the best thing that happened to me and I shouldn’t.have been left for so long . Ive read my sw files and it’s hesrtwarming to know how many people tried to help by making reports etc. You’re dokng a really good thing keep at it

This has sorrow all over it.
DN desperate for a relationship with mum.
Relationship comes with terms laid down by BF who sees himself as the injured party.
BF laying down rules outside the hearing of DSis.
DSis in receipt of maintenance and family allowance for a child that does not live there.
BF will go nuts if income reduced and redirected as it should be so will demand her return via DSis but to live as unpaid servant.
DN desperate to spend time with siblings including new baby and take whatever emotional scraps DSis throws her way.
OP you are amazing to provide stability in all this. To protect her, you must apply for residency. BF will not like the implication s of this but she cannot go home and be safe from EA.
If you send her at all, send her with packing up and drinks. If Dsis wants to know why, tell her. As to that text, politely suggest that the "cost" of her one night stay can be deducted from the family allowance and maintenance that is paid by the government and her father to DSis despite her not living there.
As the eldest, she comes with a FA premium and they are not going to rock the boat risking losing that and you informing her father he is paying the wrong person.
As a previous poster said, as soon as they are old enough to challenge him, they will be fucked off outta there by which stage the EA will have worked into their psychi and they will need counselling.
What a bloody mess. Another MN regular wanting to rescue them all from this dreadful situation.

Good god, this man is an utter cunt. You are a wonderful woman, taķing in your niece like that. This poor girl!
And frankly, I know this is your sister and all, but she is unfit to be a mother and should really stop breeding.

With the text message you have, it certainly shows that your niece is not living with her mother.

Get social services involved and get a residency order. I'd also contact child benefit and whatever the CSA is called these days and get those paid to you as well.

What about the welfare of the other 6 children? Are they being subjected to this as well?

You need to legally formalise this arrangement because:

Your sister will stand by him no matter what and has already proved she will allow neglect and abuse to go unchecked to please him.

You don't know legally what you can do to protect your niece from her mother.

Involve social services again, the other children are at risk as well. If left unchecked this could rise to a national press level, because they are a dangerous combination of completely submissive to his demands and power crazed idiot.

You try to minimise this (saying oh it was only one night and she didn't want a shower anyway) because you know you need to take that step but don't want to rock the boat. You need to. Imagine your niece or one of the other children there permanently with him limiting access to fluids and hygiene facilities. That's already pretty extreme and when he no longer feels he has as much control where is there left for him go to feel he is re-establishing control?

One of them could end up severely malnourished or starved to death. You don't want to believe your sister is capable of letting it happen but from what you've already posted you know deep down she will put them last to worship at his altar.

I'm not trying to have a go, you've stepped up in a way a lot wouldn't, however your niece needs more protection and so do the others.

Maybe supervised access could be arranged with just her mother at first. Then the mother and her siblings. She should not be under the same roof as that utter pathetic excuse of a human being. None of them should, not even your sister but she is an adult and should be protecting them, but she isn't, she never will.

This has made my blood run cold. Please seek advice from ss and nspcc as to what you can legally do to protect this little girl. And what you can do to protect those other children in the household.

If any of the younger siblings are in the same primary school that DN attended I would make an appointment to see the head so she knows to look out for the younger ones. I would also go down the route of making her residency with you official so you know she is safe before bf starts to think maybe having a slave at home has its benefits. As frustrating as it is your sister is an adult and can do what she wants.

Please update us on how your DN is when she gets back to you later today, @KungFuPandaWorks the poor girl she definitely shouldn't go back there however much she might want to. Meeting up with her mum somewhere in public with you there to back you up could be a plan. I'm sure her BF will want to be there, too, but no contact at all with him.

It must be heartbreaking for you. But you still must contact SS about them.

Sorry the late response! Just catching up on all the posts.

I've got an appointment later today at
school with the pastoral care team, the head and someone else. They've been behind us 100% so hopefully they can get the ball rolling.

I won't have the discussion with my sister, be pointless. I'd get further smacking my head off a wall repeatedly than getting her to "against her man". Highly doubt i could get my sister speaking privately with me without her bodyguard being around. Pointless discussing it with her or my nephews dad, he has no involvement in their lives and only pays because CMS attached his wages.

I could easily contact the 3rds dad, but what do I say? As far as I'm aware the boyfriends just a cockhead with the my niece, nothing towards his child (like I said as I'm aware)

Wouldn't know where to find 4,5 and 6s Dads.

I hope your meeting goes well, Panda. And that you manage to work out some appropriate protection for your niece.

You’re doing a great thing. I hope it goes well today.

Regarding the 3rd child’s dad, I would make contact a) to protect his child and b) and see if he has had any reports of abuse from his child about the other children. Perhaps he would be willing to keep an eye out too for the younger siblings and make you aware of anything he finds suspicious.

Good luck Panda hope all goes well

Thank god this girl has you. I am very worried for the ofher children - without her around he will certainly be turning his attention to one of the others. Is your niece having counselling? I’d be concerned, if he’s singled her out, that there hasn’t been other abuse occurring to be honest.

I’m so glad you’re taking it further - the whole thing is horrific, but the idea that she or he would text you asking for money for her child when you’re caring for her for nothing is so far beyond horrendous. I could cry for her honestly.

Please get the residence stuff formalised and legal then go after the money they get for her, otherwise once they realise their income would drop they’ll take her back and then she’s screwed.

What an awful situation. I remember your other thread too.

I don’t have any advice just

Oh your poor, poor neice.

I assumed as read OP that she was an adult.

I can't believe this really, she has kicked out her 11 year old dd, and now she is only allowed back in this twisted way???

This is so screwed up, I don't know where to start, and makes me pretty concerned for the younger siblings too. I am guessing the boyfriend is a massive control freak and is emotionally abusive.

Panda I reckon your niece is going to be pretty epic when she's older with you as her role model.

What an awful situation and well done OP for helping this little girl.

I second the advice from pp to make contact with the dad of DC3. Given he is supportive and has a good relationship with his child I am sure he would want to know what is going on. Especially as his child may be at risk even if not just yet or in a different way. He can then keep an eye out for his own child and let you know if he hears of any concerns.

I'm glad you're going to speak with the school panda. I think it's your call as to whether to contact the dad of dn3, though possibly if social services get involved they may raise it with him too. I suppose it depends on whether you may wish to prewarn him.

I think I remember your original thread.

I'd pull her out of there faster than I run to the fridge.

I'd also lose my shit with sister.

I'd also stop her going round.

I'm so glad you're speaking with the school. Theres such a sinister feel about the whole situation, whenever really awful things go on in the world and kids are abused the back story normally begins like this. Good for you for getting your niece out of it. I just hope all the other kids are safe too

Haven't read the whole thread, but DN needs to be protected not just because of the obvious, but also because otherwise she'll be given the blueprint for acquiescing to abusive and manipulative behaviour. I well-recognise the 'will do anything for a few crumbs of mother's love' and it's a dangerous behavioural precedent to set. Your niece needs counselling in order to help her understand what is happening and to support her in independently saying 'no' or at least in realising why she can't see her Mum in the way her Mum wants.

None of that is OK. Please formalise your care of your niece so that she isn't at the whim of her frankly cruel stepdad and your sister. Rock the boat, you niece needs someone who cares about her. I'm a bit agog that your sister one can do this to her own child but two wants payment from you and may also be receiving maintenance from your niece's father. Is your niece just a handy boost to her finances? Your niece is going to have lots of issues with her family but don't let one be no one cared enough to advocate for her and protect her.