"Drinks rule" is silly or am I being sensitive?

[KungFuPandaWorks]

Hi!
Lost my login to my old account but made a very similar name for this account, So hopefully a few will recognise me.

(Quick run down. Sister kicked niece out over sister's new boyfriend is the crux of it)

In the last 6 weeks, my sister has suddenly wanted a relationship with niece. ( coincidental the reconciliation happened around the birth of baby number 7)
Last night niece went and stayed for the first time since her mum kicking her out, obviously I was wary because my sister is still with her partner who is a dick.

Niece has not long been back, hasn't slept all night because she was helping with the baby (which she says she didnt mind) But a few things stuck out too me, maybe I'm being over sensitive because of the previous situation but I would like opinions.

• a 3 drink rule was put in place. She was only allowed 3 drinks when there (water was included in this) because she can't be drinking all the people's drinks who lives there

• everytime she mentioned me, my child or pregnancy it was made clear by the boyfriend he doesn't want me being mentioned.

• she wasn't allowed a shower or bath because she doesn't live there anymore

• when she was playing with the younger siblings he told her too stop it and go and look after the new baby because that's why she is there.

• Made it obvious he didnt want her there.

• (not really on the best grounds with my sister but it's improved) I got a text about 40 minutes after niece came home, apparently from sister. Asking if neice is planning on making staying over a regular thing, could I start contributing something for when she stays and explain that she must listen,follow and respect what (boyfriends name) says.

She is so excited that her mum is allowing her back around the house and near her siblings, but Im just worried the boyfriend is setting her up to fail. Are the above "rules" Ok? Or am I just being a bitch and not giving him the benefit of the doubt because of last time.

My take on situation (apologies, I haven’t read your previous thread).

Child 1 - around at DGP or DUncles’s house. So no father around? Doesn’t want to be at home. At an age to challenge the new boyfriend...

Child 2 - live with you. No father. Kicked out at 11yrs due to DM’s new boyfriend. Safe with you. At an age to challenge new boyfriend...

Child 3 - sounds like he/she might be ok for the moment. Good contact with father.

Children 4, 5, 6 - no contact with fathers. Not safe.

Sounds like your sister moves from new relationship to new child quickly. No stability.

I’d clue in Dad of child 3 re new boyfriend and what’s going on with the older 2 siblings. Brace yourself/family for 4, 5 & 6 spending more and more time with wider family.

Sounds like your SSis is vulnerable but ultimately she’s choosing a boyfriend over her child.

I'd have text back and said "She'll not being staying again as the rules are awful and apply only to her. Denying a child drink and a place to wash is bullying and controlling. She is not your babysitter and 11 year old should not be waking in the night to tend to a newborn. If you want to see her, you come here alone or only with the children."

Sounds like my upbringing. Please please please get DN away from this situation. I suffer with BPD due to this treatment and feelings of rejection from mother and picking men over me.

What a shocking situation. If your niece staying with you is going to be long term, you should be putting something official in place, and receiving her child benefit. For your sister to be asking you for money to have her own child in the house when she should be giving you money for her living expenses is beyond cheeky.

I don't know if I actually have the right to stop her do I? I know she lives under my roof, but nothing in place stating I'm in charge. So my sister could technically over rule me.

Niece wasn't just attending to baby herself, although I agree she shouldn't be waking up to keep my sister company.

My sister doesn't have the best choice in men which is obvious with how many failed relationships and children she has.

At the age of 11, yes realistically you can't stop your DN just slipping out the house in the morning and going to her mum's.

You can however explain why it's not a good idea for her well-being.

Sorry I haven't seen your previous threads but do you have DC of your own? If so, modelling the parent-child relationship will be the most valuable thing you can do for her. Even if your DC are much younger, you can show her that they are your priority.

I know it wasn't my sister who sent that text. I honestly think he's trying to drive the older kids away and isolate my sister. None of us really like him, but my sister has that mentality that you stick by your man no matter what.

I don't know if I actually have the right to stop her do I? I know she lives under my roof, but nothing in place stating I'm in charge.
She's been with you for 9 months now if I can count correctly, which is sometimes dodgy. Its clearly not a short term arrangement any more and that text suggests, although I suspect its from the bf, that they also see her as your problem now. You owe it to yourself and DN to get this sorted officially.

You can't legally override your sister that is why you need to get a residence order in place for her.

It sounds like you are doing what you can in a really difficult situation. This behaviour during the visit is abuse and as difficult as it is it sounds like it is down to you to do the toughest things to stop it. You can call the NSPCC for advice without giving identifying details if that would help but it does sound to me like social care need to be involved now.

The mother has given up responsibility for her daughter if she threw her out, and if she expects payment when her DD comes round (unbelievable). You must regularise this, or if not, ensure someone else does. An 11 year old is a young child. She needs a parent who is totally responsible, not one who uses her as a servant when it suits her if she is paid, or staying with someone who has no power to stop this exploitation. Please either go to SS, a solicitor, or at least, talk to the school so THEY can go to SS. This is NOT acceptable. Your sisters partner sounds horrid and your sister, frankly no better. Don’t be another person to let her down.

Nspcc and ss need to be informed re all the chn. So sorry but you need to put chn first - your sister will recover from a broken relationship with her dp- the children could never. Wishing you strength and courage over the coming months x

They are already getting money for your niece that they shouldn't in the form they of child benefit, probably tax credits and maintenance from her Dad, then they want you to pay, you who gets nothing for her day to day care, if she visits again!

SS were being lazy fuckers! They need to formalise this arrangement, so you feel secure enough, niece feels secure enough to say no to this happening again and you get rightful money for her!

You say that school have been supportive, I think PPs suggestion of talking to them is excellent, they will have an objective view of the situation and no one can blame you for any decision they take, plus they will be able to support your DN. And I think asking your sister round, or meeting at a neutral place is a good idea as that shows that you are not against them having a relationship. Although I wouldn't be surprised if new BF manages to prevent this somehow.

I'm extremely surprised SS closed this case!

And OP with the best will in the world, as much as you don't want to go down the legal route, it's the only way to protect your niece. Also, you may not mind paying for her now, but children only get more expensive, you should be receiving her child benefit, money from your sister and the maintenance from her father. Why the hell should they have it?!

I can understand (not necessarily agree) with ss advice about not rocking the boat right at the beginning, but this is now a long term arrangement and needs to be formalised.

The money is one issue (you should be receiving the lot, not them!) but more importantly you are going to need some form of pr in place for things like consent for medical treatment, school trips etc. The last thing your poor dn needs is these parasites holding her to ransom later.

This would also give you the security to be able to put your foot down in her interests when needed, without feeling your over stepping or risking her place with you.

Unfortunately it looks like you'll have your work cut out keeping her safe from these two, she's lucky to have you

but my sister has that mentality that you stick by your man no matter what

She sounds utterly vile, and needs to have her tubes tied.

I havent read whole of thread. I would be watching that man very carefully around all those little kiddies He is very controlling. SS need to be involved as this is a car crash waiting to happen. Don't allow neice to go there and be emotionally abused by this man.

No need to be offensive, BigFatMermaid, I suspect the last thing SS are is lazy fuckers, given the lack of funding and huge caseloads they have.

OP please ask SS to help again, to help you formalise your care & responsibility for your niece, and investigate concerns about your sister’s partner abusing both her and other children in the household. I agree with also informing the fathers of her half-siblings as appropriate of your concerns about the new partner’s behaviour.

You have to put the children first, it’s clear that for most of them their own parents don’t. But please always make sure your sister also knows that you will always be there for her and support her if she chooses to leave her abusive partner. Although if she continues to collude with ‘rules’ like this then she’s complicit in the abuse of her own children.

If you contact social services and explain what has happened they may support you wrt going to court for residence order (now called a child arrangement order) which will give you shared PR (parental responsibility) with your sister. Until this happens you are correct you have no legal responsibility for your niece and your sister could theoretically demand that her daughter is returned to her care - although from what you have said it's unlikely she will do this.

A child arrangement order will also lay down terms of contact - although SS can do this under an informal signed family agreement.
They may also help you with the paperwork involved in getting your nieces child benefit paid to you.

And as others said yes you do need to speak to SS with regard to the other children in this house in order that they can assess their safety. If you prefer you can raise your concerns with the school DSL of NSPCC and they can make referral on your behalf. If your sister' partner is emotionally abusive to your niece it's likely that he is also emotionally abusing (controlling) your sister. Living in this household may also be having an emotional impact on your other nieces and nephews and this is what SS should assess. They may hopefully try to support your sister with support from a children's centre / family support worker (if they aren't all being closed in your area). More importantly they can encourage her to attend domestic abuse awareness course such as the Freedom Programme in order to empower her and enable her to recognise emotional abuse in relationships (present and future)

Good luck OP

Fucking hell, I wouldn't even know where to begin with how disgusting your sister is!

OP, Just wanted to say your niece is incredibly lucky she has you, she may be desperate for her mum now but when she grows up she'll know who it was who cared for her.

I agree with your DS having her tubes tied.

I know it wasn't my sister who sent that text. I honestly think he's trying to drive the older kids away and isolate my sister. None of us really like him, but my sister has that mentality that you stick by your man no matter what.

Given your sister’s record with men, hopefully this idiot won’t last long.

He’s abusive, I’d be discouraging her from going there, but get your sister to come to you instead.

I remember you. Your sister clearly can't prioritise the needs of the dc above that of her boyfriend. Are SS aware of this? Please contact them again and put on record what niece has come back and said and contents of text. I also think you need to formalise your living arrangements and try to establish contact but not overnight at this stage. Can you get parental responsibility or some such legal order?