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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think women don't love their children more than men?

246 replies

whalewhatsallthisthen · 19/04/2018 22:04

So I started back at work last month. My baby is 6 months old. My partner is at home - he has actually given up work. I really enjoy my job and I am quite enjoying being back in the adult world and having more control over my day again, although I really miss my baby of course.

But I am being bombarded with questions from almost everyone, including colleagues and family, about whether I will be working part time and why I am not working part time. Frankly, I am working full time to keep a roof over my family's head and also because I have ambitions for promotion and part time isn't compatible with that.

Why don't men get this kind of pressure when they return to work? They are just expected to get on with it as far as I can see.

Aibu to think that men don't love their children any less than women, so there is no reason to assume women are the primary caregivers and are all heartbroken to be back at work?

OP posts:
famousfour · 20/04/2018 18:02

Hmm. People do often ask whether I am working FT or not. It's not actually occurred to me that I am being judged but I suppose that might be right. I though it's just one of those things people ask for conversation as it's far from unusual for women to change their working patterns after children.

To go to the questionnin the OP I really don't know. Maybe the level of love you have is correlated with the mental and emotional investment you make and historically men have had less expectation or opportunity to do that (no mat leave etc). Sort of a virtuous circle. But I'll truely couldn't say that in the relationships I know fathers love their children less than the mothers. On average though I would say they I think they feel less compelled to express it in terms of the amount of time they spend with them.

Original poster
whalewhatsallthisthen · 20/04/2018 18:11

Biscuit I'm not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse. The point is one shouldn't stereotype on the basis of gender. So there's no more need to ask a woman than a man. What's confusing you? Confused

OP posts:
NukaColaGirl · 20/04/2018 18:13

I started college last year. Was asked (I’m a single parent) if I felt bad for leaving all 3 of my DC in day care. I said no, they said so basically you’re thinkig like a Dad? Well... Yes, I suppose. Do men feel wretched for going to work? I’d say no. So why the fuck should we?!

MummyCuddlesSolveEverything · 20/04/2018 18:13

I get this all the time. I'm going back to work full time when Ds is 8months and people ask all the time will work not let me go part time....no, my bills won't let me go part time!

My Dh is a full time pg student and I'm the main earner, so when we started trying for a baby we always knew I'd be going back full time. I'm a bit sad about maternity leave ending but know that me going back to work is the right decision for all of us. I love my job and I know I'll enjoy being back.

I regularly get told I'll change my mind when I'm back at work and that I'll want to cut down my hours or sah. My usual reply is to ask if they are going to pay my rent then.

Original poster
whalewhatsallthisthen · 20/04/2018 18:39

Yes exactly! It's like there's something wrong with you if you don't want to stay at home or work part time. The assumption seems to be that all women want to. And if you don't then your children are to be pitied. It's so offensive! I've never experienced stereotyping to this extent before. It's maddening.

OP posts:
biscuitraider · 20/04/2018 18:41

whale stop arguing for the sake of it. Don't come out with all that stereotype gender bs to me. The fact remains that most men return to work soon after their baby's born, compared to a woman. Its not stereotyping at all. Don't deny facts to fit in with the obsession of making us all the same. Besides that why the hell are you looking for an argument, it'd finished. Sod off.

TawnyPort · 20/04/2018 18:45

It's like there's something wrong with you if you don't want to stay at home or work part time. The assumption seems to be that all women want to

If you stayed home you'd get the exact same reaction from other people. But what you need to remember is that nobody actually cares what you do.

Yarnswift · 20/04/2018 18:53

Have you also noticed that a father has to do very little to be classed as a good Dad while mothers need to do very little to be classed as a bad Mum?

Oh yeah. Now no criticism of my dh as he genuinely is an equal parent, but...

We split sick days. The only response I’ve ever had is irritation from work and grumbling about ‘can’t you find someone to take care of him?’ When dh does a sick day, you can hear the adoration - oh what a wonderful dad you are!

And he is a wonderful dad. He is equal and he does half and half on everything (currently putting dad to bed while I clear up and MN) but the difference in reaction of our respective workplaces is quite shocking. I’ve actually also heard a colleague ask him why he doesn’t ‘have a wife at home to do that.’

There is still deeply ingrained sexism and I think it fails dads as well. Men can and are often fantastic parents, and I’m sure plenty would love to work part time or look after their kids more.

biscuitraider · 20/04/2018 18:59

biscuit why can't you understand it's nothing to do with stereotyping but to do with maternity and paternity leave. Men don't get long so will return to work earlier. Just because that didn't happen with you doesn't change what is the norm. People should mind their own business but it's not stereotyping to say men return to work sooner, it's fact. Stop being ridiculous.

biscuitraider · 20/04/2018 19:03

Sorry that should have said whale

Original poster
whalewhatsallthisthen · 20/04/2018 19:15

What on earth are you talking about? The point is that I'm being bombarded with questions about why I'm not working part time because I'm a woman. How can you not see that is a stereotype on the basis of gender?

And don't tell me to sod off on my own thread. You're spoiling for a fight. No idea why.

OP posts:
Original poster
whalewhatsallthisthen · 20/04/2018 19:20

And as regards leave, as I already said, someone who split parental leave with his partner asked me why I had done so and was I working part time etc. And was I upset at being back to work? So how can you say this has nothing to do with gender. The mind boggles.

OP posts:
sabbath84 · 20/04/2018 19:21

Ifyouseeritamoreno and noeffingidea very interesting lines of thought and as another has said very thought provoking. Its a line of thinking I was struggling to put together into a working idea

TawnyPort · 20/04/2018 19:26

The point is one shouldn't stereotype on the basis of gender. So there's no more need to ask a woman than a man. What's confusing you?

they aren't asking because of your gender, but because you have had maternity leave. If you had 2 women who had a baby together, they would ask the one who took maternity leave how she was doing going back to work after 6 or 12 months, and not the one who went back after a week.

TawnyPort · 20/04/2018 19:27

(of course the reason women stay home is generally gender based, but because of biology as much as society, and thats a much more complex question than you are asking)

biscuitraider · 20/04/2018 19:40

whale you were the one who came at me, and no I'm not spoiling for a fight at all. It's not stereotyping to presume the man will go back to work before the woman, it's about practicalities. The woman usually has maternity leave, the man doesn't.

But followed on from your logic we must be stereotyping the man by presuming he's going back to work, you can't have it both ways. Why can't you understand what I'm saying. You sound quite bitter op tbh.

pandarific · 20/04/2018 19:58

Ugh, THANK you op. Just upduffed and ambitious and people are already starting with me. I’m the higher earner and I love my job so... Hmm

Charley50 · 20/04/2018 20:01

Gingerbread stars say nearly 25% of uk children live in single parent households, so far higher than what an OP said.

Statistically it's obvious men find it easier to walk away from their children, and voluntarily see them less or not at all.

Obv, some men love their children dearly and actively, and some men are prevented from contact by exes, but still they walk away in higher numbers.

I think it's partly biology, and partly cultural.

Charley50 · 20/04/2018 20:02

Stats, not stars! Blush

MrsSmile · 20/04/2018 20:02

I think men can detach and move on from their kids better than women.

Voci · 20/04/2018 20:08

repub.eur.nl/pub/98661/Proefschrift-de-Hoon.pdf (Dutch context but you can find some other things in there; including references to other countries)

Before children, women are already more likely to work part-time. After children even more women work part-time. For men children don't have a significant influence; there's no increase in working part-time. There's a decrease in men working part-time after children (unless you have more than 2, but even then it's a tiny increase)­. Same for male single-parents, only 5.6 works part-time (43 percent for women).

Men who have children and don't work full-time feel less happy (the opposite for women; also they are -on average- happier than women working full-time). A man who chooses to take care of the children for 1 day a week, feels less happy. Men are at their happiest when they work full-time.

The researcher thinks that this could be mitigated to some degree by involving men more with the children and so on (less traditional, less male breadwinner model, possibly daddy quota ...). Quite difficult though since in the idea that the mum is the best carer for her children is still omnipresent in the Netherlands (and in some other places; see link above).

So basically because you're doing things different I guess.

TawnyPort · 20/04/2018 20:09

Gingerbread stars say nearly 25% of uk children live in single parent households, so far higher than what an OP said

And only a minority of those have no contact with their fathers. So the points made earlier in the thread are obviously offensive bullshit.

You can't complain that people treat you differently to men with children AND state that men don't love their children much and can leave them easily.

Original poster
whalewhatsallthisthen · 20/04/2018 20:16

Biscuit I'm not bitter. What an odd thing to say. I'm irritated by gender stereotyping.

You don't think it's a stereotype for people to assume I'm going back part time because I'm a woman and I took maternity leave, and other women do go part time? In that case you don't appear to understand what a stereotype is.

OP posts:
Original poster
whalewhatsallthisthen · 20/04/2018 20:20

Reading your post back, we appear to genuinely be talking at cross purposes here. No-one as far as I can see has said this: "not stereotyping to presume the man will go back to work before the woman"

It is stereotyping to be surprised a woman has come back to work full time. It is stereotyping to be surprised that a woman would return earlier than 12 months.

That's what I'm saying. Perhaps we don't disagree on that after all?

OP posts:
Mummyoflittledragon · 20/04/2018 20:22

To a certain extent, I think if you look hard enough, it is often possible to see more engaged fathers and less engaged ones. Those, who would be more likely to see their children and those, who are not.

I think it’s sad some fathers don’t want to engage more. Of course it can be crap for the children. But the men are also missing out on the richness of life and love that if they just stopped and just enjoyed the moment, they’d be more fulfilled. I don’t think all of this is selfishness. Some of it is also a lack of confidence and not knowing where to start.

I think it would probably be a fair assumption that the more you engage and connect with your child, the more you love them. The oxytocin connection.