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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think women don't love their children more than men?

246 replies

whalewhatsallthisthen · 19/04/2018 22:04

So I started back at work last month. My baby is 6 months old. My partner is at home - he has actually given up work. I really enjoy my job and I am quite enjoying being back in the adult world and having more control over my day again, although I really miss my baby of course.

But I am being bombarded with questions from almost everyone, including colleagues and family, about whether I will be working part time and why I am not working part time. Frankly, I am working full time to keep a roof over my family's head and also because I have ambitions for promotion and part time isn't compatible with that.

Why don't men get this kind of pressure when they return to work? They are just expected to get on with it as far as I can see.

Aibu to think that men don't love their children any less than women, so there is no reason to assume women are the primary caregivers and are all heartbroken to be back at work?

OP posts:
callies · 20/04/2018 07:21

But in that guardian article he’d be classed as having “regular contact” so all ok in the world of men and women, totally equal, sure.

Original poster
whalewhatsallthisthen · 20/04/2018 07:21

My father fought for and got equal access.

Maybe the general trend is that men are less likely to care for their children but I don't think that I am some sort of alien because I don't want to be a sahm.

My complaint is really that I am being continuously gender stereotyped and it's bloody horrible.

OP posts:
callies · 20/04/2018 07:26

No definitely not an alien.

PinkbicyclesinBerlin · 20/04/2018 07:28

Yes but Cailles 9 in 10 men do live with their children so out of 1000 men 987 see their kids. However yes being that kind of toerag that doesn’t see their kids is genuinely the preserve of a small minority of men.

Yarnswift · 20/04/2018 07:29

It’s two issues really.

  1. Do men love their kids as much as women? Well I can’t answer for everyone but my DH does and is an equal parent. Having said that a worrying number are able to walk out and not look back so I’d tentatively suggest that what you have isn’t universal.
  1. The way women are expected to be the ones to stay home and if you don’t you're lambasted. Yup that’s shit. If your kid is happy, you’re happy and your husband is happy, all is well in the world. If your domestic dynamic is free from coercion and is equal, then you’re modelling good relationships regardless of one/both parents working or which one works.

I did most of the parental leave, now DH and I share all the drop offs and pick ups and sick days and bedtimes and generally everything. The expectations of our workplaces are so gendered though - they expect him to have a wife at home 🙄 they demoted me and promoted him when I announced I was pregnant... etc etc. You’re fighting against a lot of ingrained prejudice and crap unfortunately

zzzzz · 20/04/2018 07:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
whalewhatsallthisthen · 20/04/2018 07:31

Yarn that's a great way of setting it out. Thank you.

The look in people's eyes when I tell them I'm full time is I think what's getting to me. The flicker of judgement. I guess there's nothing for it but to keep on going.

OP posts:
Thursdaydreaming · 20/04/2018 07:32

I think it's true, men don't love their kids as much/in the same way as women. Obviously individual mileage varies.

I dont think it's offensive to point that out. From an evolutionary perspective, it makes perfect sense. A man can have heaps of kids at little to no cost to him, a women can have only a few, risking her own life to do so.

Its also not offensive as its not always a bad thing. So often I see women torn up with guilt about various aspects of parenting, thinking "Am I good enough, am I doing it right". Although men do struggle, I rarely see them torn up the same way. And this is a good thing! If the kid is alive and happy, the man is happy, if only women could relax like this as well.

An example is so many women say they were brought to depression and even near the point of suicide by the pain and exhaustion of breastfeeding that wasn't going well. Would any man do this? No, he would give up immediately! And that's not a bad thing. He would be acting far more sensibily than the women in this situation.

catinapoolofsunshine · 20/04/2018 07:33

YANBU

When half of all stay at home parents are stay at home dads the moon will be made of cheese the world will be a better place.

It just shows how even women who work full time are penalised for having a child in a way men are not. All a result of the fact only women can be pregnant, but a projection from that to the assumption women will be default childrearer - you can bet it would be the same if you'd adopted.

Woshambo · 20/04/2018 07:36

I'm dreading going to work after having my baby. I'll have to for a while for bills etc
I also love my job though and wouldn't want to give it up as it's great pay for what I do.
2 of my friends/colleagues have had children and came back full time only to be ripped apart with questions like this and comments like "I don't know how u can leave ur child to come in here, don't u miss them?" Which have upset my friends. Ofc they miss their children but they need to keep them fed and have a roof over their head.
I have suggested what I plan on saying "u may not realise it but ur words are very cutting. Ofc I want to be with my child but I would also like to buy things for them, take them places etc which may not be possible without my income" it won't go down well with some of the older generation but it's better than telling them to fuck off.
I've discussed with my partner about us both going part time but he's just started an adult apprenticeship so his wages are low but it's skilled work to earn his papers.
Mines is an unskilled office job.

Lethaldrizzle · 20/04/2018 07:38

Surely it's all biological. Women can breast feed, fathers can not. That was a big reason why I was the main carer in the early years and didn't even consider returning to work at that time. Everyone gets judged by someone somewhere. Just crack on and ignore

Yarnswift · 20/04/2018 07:40

Women can’t win. If you work you’re a cold hearted harridan. If you go part time your career is fucked. If you sahm you’re a lazy sponger. In reality not one of the above options is best / worst all the time - everyone just does what they feel is best for their family within the restrictions they have.

You see it all the time on here with woh/sah parent threads, it always descends into madness.

I personally think the important thing is to have a loving, stable, secure home environment and if you use childcare that also has to be good (and lots is and some isn’t...) if you have a Home dynamic where both parents respect each other, there’s calm, no violence or aggro and there’s decent splits of domestic stuff, you’re doing fine. Whether one or both of you works and whether the working parent is Mum or dad.

Neither woh or sah parents love their kids ‘more.’ Most are just reacting to circumstances and doing their best with what they have.

The misogyny in the world of work is a whole other ballgame. There was a great thread in feminism a while back about facilitated men - give that a read if you fancy it.

Woshambo · 20/04/2018 07:40

TinklyLittleLaugh some women leave their children too which baffles me. My mother left me and DB and had another 2 children lol. We speak now but throughout my life I've heard an alarming amount of stories similar to mine.
I'm "lucky", my childhood trauma has turned into an ongoing family joke lol

callies · 20/04/2018 07:46

How can you read that guardian article and say minority?

QueenofmyPrinces · 20/04/2018 07:49

The look in people's eyes when I tell them I'm full time is I think what's getting to me. The flicker of judgement. I guess there's nothing for it but to keep on going.

When I went back full time after my first son and got discreetly judged for it I was told that working full time hours was such a long time to be away from my child. When I was pregnant with my second son they said, “Well obviously you’ll be coming back part time once you’ve got two??”

A colleague of mine, whilst on maternity interviewed for another position in our department which was a promotion and would have involved being at work more often and obviously having higher stress levels. It was a fantastic opportunity for her and she got the job. The judgemental comments and criticism she got behind her back from some of the women we work with was awful. They couldn’t believe she would “do such a thing” when she had a baby and a 3 year old at home. I felt like I lived in a parallel universe with all the outdated opinions being thrown around.

catinapoolofsunshine · 20/04/2018 07:50

It is biological - the relevance of that drops of swiftly once the child is weaning - though. If still breastfeeding it is harder to return to work at 6 months, but by a year old a child who doesn't have any milk but breast milk from the breast can easily just have a full morning and evening feed. By 12 months the biological reasons, which are very valid in the first 6 months, don't really apply.

The possibility of course is that a greater bond has developed out of the early biological needs. That's more psychological but stemming from a biological basis. You could argue that it's an excellent reason for the dad to become main carer at 12 months in order to redress the balance!

catinapoolofsunshine · 20/04/2018 07:52

Sorry, that was kind of in response to Lethal

Woshambo · 20/04/2018 07:55

@callies I have to disagree. my father DID NOT love my mother. She left Wen I was 5 and my father was always in prison. But everytime he was out I was the first person he would contact.
He used to take my brother and I (who wasn't his child) fishing trips and great days out. He loved me and my brother but he hated my mother.
My uncle split with his OH and made sure he had custody of his 2 children.
My other uncle took on a child that wasn't his own, Wen he split from DC mother he continued his relationship with the child and still does to this day as he lives with him now.

Ohmydayslove · 20/04/2018 08:00

When I was a Cm I had one loveky mum who went back to work when baby was 6 weeks old. The amount of comments I had from playground mums was amazing. So ‘oh how could she’ ‘I couldn’t do that’ and ‘what a shame!!’

I batted them all back but it made me very angry.

Mum was a high flyer and earned far more than dad. My complete admiration to her. The girl Is now 11 and completely happy and thriving. Loveky girl.

I suppose dad wasn’t asked once why he was back to work Sad

Blaablaablaa · 20/04/2018 08:02

@callies I think you are projecting your personal experiences on other people here because that simply isn't true.

There are some feckless, irresponsible men out there but there are also men with integrity who adore their children regardless of their relationship with the child's mother.

I can honestly say my DH loves our child as much as I do. Biology has very little to do with it . It's about the relationships you build.

OP me and my DH work at the same place and when I went back full time and it was commented on constantly (by women) about how awful it was that I had to come back full time.

It wasn't awful, I didn't have to and not one of them as my DH same question

RJnomore1 · 20/04/2018 08:10

I strongly suspect my dh may actually love our children more than I do. I mean I do adore them but he's just more family focused and always has been.

Op don't ever feel guilty for working. Take that look of judgement and let it ignite your wrath. Honestly until men get the same shit for working I refuse to entertain it.

famousfour · 20/04/2018 08:36

Anyone who thinks someone loves there children more because they stay at home compared to the person who goes to work is 😯

biscuitraider · 20/04/2018 08:39

I suppose dad wasn’t asked once why he was back to work
It would be a strange question surely.

Blaablaablaa · 20/04/2018 08:58

@biscuit only as strange as asking mum surely?

Original poster
whalewhatsallthisthen · 20/04/2018 09:00

famousfour

Yes I meant it somewhat facetiously. The point is I can't see why it is assumed women are all desperate to be the primary caregiver and why they're judged if they're not

OP posts:
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