To think women don't love their children more than men?

[whalewhatsallthisthen]

So I started back at work last month. My baby is 6 months old. My partner is at home - he has actually given up work. I really enjoy my job and I am quite enjoying being back in the adult world and having more control over my day again, although I really miss my baby of course.

But I am being bombarded with questions from almost everyone, including colleagues and family, about whether I will be working part time and why I am not working part time. Frankly, I am working full time to keep a roof over my family's head and also because I have ambitions for promotion and part time isn't compatible with that.

Why don't men get this kind of pressure when they return to work? They are just expected to get on with it as far as I can see.

Aibu to think that men don't love their children any less than women, so there is no reason to assume women are the primary caregivers and are all heartbroken to be back at work?

It is true although obviously co-parenting households hugely outnumber single parent households.

One interesting point is that the numbers vary significantly country to country. For example in Sweden the number of single parent households in 2014 was 19%. 14% were single mother households and 5% were single father households. The corresponding numbers in the UK were 26% and 2%.

Suggests there is something more going on than just innate nature of men and women.

"But the thing I hate most is the other mums saying "oh I can't imagine working full time, I'd miss child too much.""

Yes I got this about not taking the full 12 months of leave. One woman said "well you must really love your job" and rolled her eyes. This was at an antenatal class. It was said in an awful tone too. Drove me mad. I feel your irritation.

I think it's to do with gender steteotyping/expectations. Me and my partner are both male with a child and there's a clear expectation from others that one of us should fulfill the 'mum' role. Or when they find out one of us works part time "so X is the Mummy then". No, both dads.

If it was natural for women to love their children more than men (or vice versa) then there would be some biological evidence for this.

All that leaves is the claim that women must love their children more because on separation the women have custody of the children and the men bugger off. But that's baloney. A man whose relationship will break up will be obliged to leave the family home, and the children. He may choose to fight, but it he will have an uphill struggle because it is unlikely that he will be found to be the primary carer. From this point he is no longer a member of the family, but an adjunct whose main purpose is to provide money. Because he will only have contact, or perhaps custody for one or two days in the fortnight, he is removed from all meaningful decisions regarding the children's upbringing. He has a choice to remain in this unenviable situation or get on with his life.

It is hardly surprising that plenty of men in this situation would simply grieve the death of their relationship with their children and simply move on.

If they form a new relationship and have another child - and why shouldn't he? - he will face the competing demands of his new child and his new partner who loves him against his old family in relation to whom he is a spare part. Guess who is going to lose out.

In more enlightened countries, fathers are more involved in parenting and when separation happens share custody with the mothers. This makes for happier children, happier fathers, reduced payments of child support (because earning and caring is basically shared) and therefore greater compliance with paying it.

There's no need for this "but we carry them for 9 months so we have a speshul bond" poppycock.

I don't think it's poppycock. I felt deep love for all my babies before they were born, I'm certain my dh didn't feel it. When men leave home they tend to just take off on their own whereas a woman Men on the whole done have the same strong ties.

I don't think my husband loves our children less, however I do think he is less tuned into them and less likely to make sacrifices for them.

He is a great father and shares the load but he tends to be less focused on them than I am and I see this with a lot (but not all) my friends

Rather than a difference between fathers loving less/more, I think it is more about women generally being less selfish than men and that is probably down to generations of conditioning.

I used to think mums and dads loved equally when I was younger but as I've gotten older all the evidence in my personal life, professional life, family and social circle screams otherwise.

Of course there are exceptions, there always will be on a individual level but there is no doubt in my mind that the majority of mothers love their children more and are less selfish and more self sacrificing then the fathers. It's very sad in many cases but it's true.

I think it is more about women generally being less selfish than men and that is probably down to generations of conditioning.

Absolutely this

probably down to generations of conditioning if men were able to give birth then i'd agree, but it's the mothers who create a strong bond with their baby before birth and after, not quite in the same way as men. As far as conditioning goes this was surely practical, the woman needed to recover from childbirth and breastfeeding would have been more common, the men had to go out to work. Years ago it was the only way.

YADNBU. Before having kids, I'd never experienced any real discrimination on the basis of being a woman. After is a completely different story. I work in an industry dominated by men with stay at home wives, and I went back to work full time. Some of the comments I've been treated to (all from absentee workaholic fathers) included

• 'what are you doing back full time, you're a mother?'
• 'how do you do it? I mean, with young kids and all?'
• 'maybe you'll apply for a more senior position once the kids are a bit older'

I've trialled a number of different responses, the one that shuts them up fastest works best is 'well, my partner pulls his weight'.

I notice that male new parents in our team don't get asked the same. As if - whilst in theory women are equal to men - it's not really a power that civilised women should use And it makes me mad because of all of the Times / Daily Fail readers out there who argue that women should be paid less because "they don't play five sets" - can't win either way.

My husband is equally offended by the Mogg-esque stereotypes of men unable to find the right end of the child to apply a nappy to.

probably down to generations of conditioning if men were able to give birth then i'd agree, but it's the mothers who create a strong bond with their baby before birth and after, not quite in the same way as men. As far as conditioning goes this was surely practical, the woman needed to recover from childbirth and breastfeeding would have been more common, the men had to go out to work. Years ago it was the only way.

But Biscuit, the same works for adoptive or surrogate parents. The mother takes on a role even though they didnt give birth/ breastfeed.

Personally I think far too much is made of the impact of pregnancy, birth and breastfeeding on the overall bonding between mother and child.

I also dont think its all about women traditionally not working, its about women always being taught to put others first and themselves last. Men are never taught that.

That's true, but given the choice i wonder what most women would rather do, stay home with the baby or go out to work. Unless it's a really good satisfying job i think most would rather stay at home. My daughter dreaded her maternity leave ending and hated having to leave her babies. But as is usual now two wages are required so she didn't have a choice. She always regrets those early years.

What i meant to say was if there was a choice between her and her dp working she'd have hated it if dp insisted he wanted to be the one to stay at home.

@biscuit my experience is different . I couldn't wait to get back to work and most of my friends felt the same. We were all lucky enough to have a choice and all chose to go back to work. I have no regrets

I don't doubt it, we're all different. It'd be good to see a survey wouldn't it.

75% according to this poll, sorry daily mail, but that's quite a majority
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2199539/75-new-mothers-stay-home-bring-child-afford-to.html

I'm sorry but survey's like this hold very little credibility. They're almost always carried out by an organisation with an agenda on a small, select participant group which is in no way representative of wider society ( in this case uSwitch probably targeting people in debt who have had very little choice but to return to work) this skews the results somewhat.

Now, if you ran some credible, academic research with a large participant group you probably would find more women saying they would prefer to stay at home than not and there would no doubt be a gender split. However, I suspect it wouldn't be as high as people expect and I think it's important to consider the reasons behind this decision. How much of it is due to societal expectations? How much of it is because they've been convinced their husband's career must come first ? How much of it is due the the extortionate cost of childcare?

Well in my daughters case it was nothing to do with her Dps career having more importance. They earn similar amounts. She'd hate to not be working now but when the kids were little she hated having no choice but to work. She just wanted to be with each baby when they were little. Perfectly natural. Whereas her dp wouldn't have been bothered either way. I don't think that was anything to do with conditioning, it was heartfelt. Of course i accept that not all women feel the same.

Just as not all women want to stay at home and choose to work.
Many women I know who work donut because they are passionate about their careers not because of financial pressures.

I respect any choice as long as it really is a choice. I do feel many women are almost coerced in to that choice. Either they are made to feel like a terrible mother for wanting to work or they are convinced, told that their husband's careers are more important - he earns more, he can't be expected to work flexibly, etc. We seem to place finance as the main reward for a career when the reality is that there is so much more to a career than money.

Yes i agree, my dd would hate to stay at home now, it was just when her babies were little. But obviously we're all different.

Of course! The world would be a very boring place if we were all the same