AIBU to think parenting a wilful child can be really miserable?

[Hackedoffwithit]

I have namechanged so I can say what I want without reproach.

I'm so tired of parenting a wilful 7 year old DS. I have tried so many approaches, so many ways of parenting him - we have had SO many discussions about it that I can hardly bear to talk about it with DP again - and I have taken so much on board about my own personality, my failings and made huge efforts to overcome whatever I'm contributing to it... and yet...it gets us nowhere.

He's a great kid - funny, bright, emotionally really astute. But he's also utterly disrespectful to me quite a lot (far more than DP), unmovable once he wants something and if denied, can go on and on and on and on - never giving up - which is so exhausting and makes me want to shoot myself. And sometimes he's rude a lot to me, at home and out, so rude that despite taking the approach of asking him gently to 'be nice, use a nice tone,' I want to scream in his face that I'm his mum, show some respect.

Today I had enough and snapped after several things. Sent him to bed without reading. He was upset but even though he understood why, he couldn't let go of the fact that we'd denied him reading time. He's apologised but only because he really wants to read. He's still calling out about it now, 45 mins on.

When he's good, he's AMAZING. And don't get me wrong, I absolutely love him to bits.

But I find him so challenging and such hard work. It's just really upsetting. I feel stuck in treacle with it.

I find the friends thing difficult - I don't tend to be with him when he's with his friends in the park these days (Germany - different social rules!) but I have in the past taken him home. It's harder when the friends are here and aren't due to be picked up for a while! I find that I simply can't tell him off/have a serious conversation when he's with his friends because he's totally off the face of the planet into silly show off mode but we do it afterwards and tend to use grounding as it's semi-related - if you can't behave then you can't have friends over kind of thing. Recently he's been MUCH more reasonable - friend was over the other day and they were being silly and having a pillow fight with one of the hundreds of cheap cushions he has on his bed which was sewn poorly and leaking stuffing everywhere, and I just walked in and looked serious and said "Clean that up please" and he said awwww, I'll do it later, and I said no, you need to do it now. And he translated to his friend "Come on, we need to clean this up now" - I think I left the room then to do something else and they did clean it up pretty decently and moved onto some other less messy activity.

The other issue with friends is that before - and at 7 we were probably still in this territory - the level of seriousness/scariness/physical force we'd need to get to to actually bring him back down to earth and understand we were being serious was at a point it would be scary to the other child - and I have never liked doing that and I don't think it's fair on the other child either, so it made more sense to let the playdate run, let the overexcitement wear off after the other child left and then he would be closer to a level where we could just do normal telling off/serious voice and it wouldn't be as traumatic.

But generally 7 is well old enough for a delayed punishment and delayed punishments always worked better - because it gave him nothing to fight with me about in the moment! So I could say we will talk about this later, and he'd know that would mean he would be likely to get screen banned/grounded/extra chores but there was nothing he actually had to kick off against. He'd say he didn't care but he did care really. And the time delay also let us work out what was reasonable and not just shout ever more ridiculous threats!

DS1 is a mini-me - bright, stubborn, argumentative. From about 7 he was convinced that he knew better than me about everything. So many arguments - he knew exactly how to push my buttons. He's now 12, and it has got much better. Partly because I've tried to pick my battles and realise when I'm just being bloody minded. Partly through his maturity, and because as he's got older I've been able to increase his independence and to allow him to make bad decisions and take the consequences. He is now mostly lovely. Although obviously not a teenager yet!

On the park thing, I've learnt that it's really important to be fair, and to leave him a way to back down / change his behaviour without losing face.

Thank you all again for your helpful thoughts

Don't hold the line. Don't have one at all. If he's that headstrong let him create his own lines (within reason).

Sometimes parents create rules and boundaries where there don't need to be any (or the parent just cba doing what the child wants to do).

Think about it a different way, instead of saying no to things. Like if he wants "A, B, C" ask him to come up with an action plan of how to get it. Like problem solving. Then if it's unobtainable he will come to that conclusion himself and you don't have to be the one to say no.

Also who removes reading as punishment? Why would you even do that?! Also 40 minutes on I'd say that punishment hasn't worked so it was futile.

I'm in the same boat OP. Could have written your post.

Am hoping he'll be a really well paid QC one day. But in the meantime arghhh!

You are the adult. Do not negotiate.

OP you've described my son. He's 8 and is getting better (well sometimes it seems that way) , but his apparent lack of respect for me makes me furious and really sad. Good God he's willful, and independent, and questions everything. He's basically me. Little bugger. Thing is, I want him to question things and be independent etc, but I want him to respect and listen to me. Not quite sure how to make that happen.

He's always had huge emotions, and hasn't been able to deal with them. He is able to talk about things more now he's getting older. He's clever, and articulate and he drives me fucking mad.
No advice I'm afraid, but it sounds like you're doing a cracking job. It's fucking tough. I'm a single parent, but thankfully have a good support network around me. It's pretty lonely stuff though.

I hate that anyone would suggest a disorder for a wilful child! Like anyone not totally submissive or well behaved has a 'problem' and nobody can deviate from the absolute middle line of behaviour without needing special treatment or medication. People are allowed personality.
OP, it is exhausting. I think all you can really do is teach him some self calming and self control techniques and not waver once you've made a decision. At least his strong personality will stand him in good stead through life, he won't be a pushover, he will question authority and know his own mind.

A friend said to me in Japan they don't bother to discipline children till age 7 or something! 😂😱

Sometimes I think of this when trying ti explain to dd 5 what she simply doesn't understand! She's hard work too!! Adorable but hard work. In some ways it's because her understanding isn't there.
Maybe step back.. And wait for it to come.. Be less regimented? Looser on reading time etc..

a bit different because they aren't my own children and that always somehow makes it easier but when I'm dealing with children like this I remind my self that often it is these strong, determined, single minded characteristics that are very hard to deal with in a child can be contributors to success as an adult.

I would focus on no meaning no. You are prepared to explain why but once you have said no then that no stands.

I’ve learnt a lot working in a comprehensive school. I’m not a teacher/assistant but often around the department when the good teachers are disciplining the rude arrogant kids who don’t follow instruction and constantly back chat.

They basically remove child from audience and bollock them in the corridor. They explain the bad behaviour, they explain the child had a warning and then they are told to go and work in isolation and lose breaks. Back chat always leads to detention as zero respect. They never allow the child to talk over them or answer back.

So I would say in the park put your best teacher head on, call your child over, give them a telling off and warn them anymore bad behaviour and we are going home. And follow through.

Getting told off by your mum in front of your friends will probably be a pretty good consequence - mortally embarrassing.

If you can perfect a staring look, that means if you carry on I will not tolerate it, even better.

It is phenomenally hard work. I really felt worn down by DS1 whose will, as a child was like iron. No one could change his mind - not a teacher, parent, anyone, once it was set.

I found these things helped:

1. pick your battles - really minimise what you choose to care about. I had several teachers have strong words with me because he wouldn't put his coat on when they told him to. I just said: let him get cold or wet, that's how he'll learn.
2. give him power (when it's fine by you) Put bowls of food on the table - show him which is protein, which carbs and which vitamins, and tell him to pick something from each. It really doesn't matter if you have real food and he chooses a ham sandwich and sliced cucumber. He'll live and you'll not fight.
3. Discuss. This sounds counterintuitive but the little sods with wills of iron are often quite clever. If you discuss with them why you are needing them to do something, why it's not a choice but a decision made by a grown up - surprisingly, this sometimes helps.

4.Never give in. If you pick your battles carefully then you have the strength to stick to them.

1. Mimic him. If he's speaking in horrible tones to you, use the same tone to him and use it to say: do you like it when I screech and whine in your face. Make it clear you are copying his behaviour - not to mock him but to allow him to see how it feels to be on the receiving end.
2. If he plays up in the car, pull in without a word. Say absolutely nothing. Even if he;s on the way to his best friend's birthday party (yes we did this). Sit in absolute silence until he calms down and gets puzzled. then say one word calmly. 'Seatbelt.' 'Drink'. If he still doesn't comply, sit and read in total silence. Eventually (we found) he'll get curious, and then I'd say: You want to go to D's birthday party. But you won't put your seatbelt on. We'll wait here until you do and then let me know when it's done or if you need help, and then we'll go. Zero emotion. Zero negotiation.

It really was exhausting. But if it's any consolation, DC are now in their teens, and DS1 who was fiercely strong willed, and DS2 who does have autism, are now usually laid back, gentle souls who are a real pleasure to live with.

Hackedoff I feel for you. To put things into context, I've now got 2 adult DDs and an adult DSS.

My DD1 was exactly as you describe your DS and I can only offer a few insights all these years on. DD1 came out screaming her head off and from then on, I had my work cut out!

She challenged absolutely everything. She called black white, and white black. 'No' was red rag to a bull. She holds the Guinness World Record for the longest tantrum . It was hard work, non stop, exhausting.

I could type all day as to what she was like and still be typing tomorrow. MinaPaws post above is spot on and that is how I tried to be with her, but it was very hard work. The only thing I would say is ... I never gave in. She would keep on and on and on and on for something (it was like chinese water torture!) and I just knew that if I gave in, it would be 100 times worse next time. I tried firmness, distraction, gentle coaxing, shouting, the lot... Nope. She just kept on. But I'm a stubborn so and so, so I did not give in. I was fair, I explained why but NO Giving in.

Teen years were tricky, she pushed the boundaries unbelievably but again I did not give in. I once threatened to come and get her (too late home on a school night) in my old dressing gown, fluffy slippers, hair stuck up, contact lenses out and my glasses on, basically a complete embarrassment. I had to follow through and I embarrassed her in front of her friends after numerous warnings that I would do that. That was a turning point because she knew I was going to do what I said and she came in when I told her from then on.

I must stop the rambling but need to add this... she is now in her late twenties and despite her character not changing (she can have an argument in an empty room!), I could not be more proud of her. She has channelled her strong character into trying to right wrons, she works hard and plays hard, she gives a lunch to homeless every week, she mentors at Centrepoint charity, she's running the London marathon for Amnesty and as much HackedOff you are exhausted now, you will undoubtedly reap the benefits for strong parenting in the future. Just hang on in there.

Wow, Rousette. Hats off to you. I have to say, your DD sounds like me! I was very much the same when I was growing up. I wore my mum out. It makes me sad that my DS is doing the same to me, that I can't seem to break the cycle.

Minapaws - I like your advice, thanks a lot.

Tiptoptat - I like your thinking too. Can I please just stress that taking away reading was a last resort and the first thing that came to me as it was all that was left of the night for him? It is not something I would ever want to use as a consequence but I was at my wits end.But it wouldnt have mattered what I did - he'd still be digging his heels in about it 40 mins later.

I do look back Hacked and wonder how I got through it and when DD and I talk about it now, she just laughs! The thing is... it's their character isn't it... exhausting, tiring, wearing, relentless but just think how your DS will be able to channel that in years to come! Good luck with it.

I have one of these. Hang on in there. She is now ten and it does get much better.

Things I found help:

• Cutting down on the conversation. There is certainly a time and a place for discussing behaviour and we do it a lot but it is not in a heated moment. I employ a 1,2,3 system I borrowed from a book. They are told the consequence of carrying on at 1 and the consequence is carried out at 3. She just can´t hear anything more complex.

• Not isolating her. She just cannot handle it.

• Keeping the consequence to things she can bear to lose e.g story. She doesn´t like it but she can live without it. Contact with me she cannot live without.

• Not shouting if you can possibly help it. I don´t always manage it but we both hate it.

• talk about it later when it has all completey calmed down

• I realise she really can´t handle it when I am not on top of things. For example, yesterday I was really tired and it really upset her. She was horrible! Not fair on me but I have learned to put the brakes on earlier (the 1,2,3) to give me some breathing space.

• empathising can help e.g. I can see you are finding it really frustrating I am not helping you find your sports bag but I am putting my knickers on. If you can let me put my knickers on, I will help you then. Rather than, ´Give me a minute´ - this she does not understand.

I am also really grateful to have a DC who is not like this. It lets me know I am not crazy.

Thanks Margarita. Yes, I suspect it would help me a lot to have another DC who wasn't like this - maybe to prove to myself that it's not just about my parenting. But it wasn't to be.

Stop calling him wilful and think of it as naughty.

You don't deserve to be treated like this. Stop thinking it's your fault. If he doesn't have any special needs he's being a brat.

I might add that there's a difference between being independent, curious, questioning and strong and showing zero respect for your parents.

I found it (and still do) quite soul destroying. If I'd had known how difficult parenting was, I probably wouldn't have bothered. There is a sadness, DEEP in my heart, that my life has been un-necessarily harder then it needed to be.
But the ease of ds2 reminds me that not all children are the same.

Hope you find 'acceptance' and just appreciate that this is your 'job lot' and it could be worse?

My goodness. It depends what he said and did, but if a Dc of mine was rude to me and a friend yes I would take him home. And have done similar in the past. Only ever had to do it once.

My DS is ASD and it can be soul destroying at times. I'm on the verge of burnout with it wine by 7.30am you've already been through the wringer several times over

I have absolutely no idea why my iPad has added the word wine in there. I can categorically state that I don't drink wine by 7.30am

Sarky - if you think we haven't tried, then you're mistaken.

Slutty - that's hard. I feel for you.

Obolomov - yes, I can relate to that some days, for sure