AIBU to think parenting a wilful child can be really miserable?

[Hackedoffwithit]

I have namechanged so I can say what I want without reproach.

I'm so tired of parenting a wilful 7 year old DS. I have tried so many approaches, so many ways of parenting him - we have had SO many discussions about it that I can hardly bear to talk about it with DP again - and I have taken so much on board about my own personality, my failings and made huge efforts to overcome whatever I'm contributing to it... and yet...it gets us nowhere.

He's a great kid - funny, bright, emotionally really astute. But he's also utterly disrespectful to me quite a lot (far more than DP), unmovable once he wants something and if denied, can go on and on and on and on - never giving up - which is so exhausting and makes me want to shoot myself. And sometimes he's rude a lot to me, at home and out, so rude that despite taking the approach of asking him gently to 'be nice, use a nice tone,' I want to scream in his face that I'm his mum, show some respect.

Today I had enough and snapped after several things. Sent him to bed without reading. He was upset but even though he understood why, he couldn't let go of the fact that we'd denied him reading time. He's apologised but only because he really wants to read. He's still calling out about it now, 45 mins on.

When he's good, he's AMAZING. And don't get me wrong, I absolutely love him to bits.

But I find him so challenging and such hard work. It's just really upsetting. I feel stuck in treacle with it.

@DeathStare I'm sure you're right, but the OP has pointed out that her DS behaves differently with her than with her DH. And that, for me, is a sticking point - I assume your DD does the moaning regardless of whoever she is moaning to?

It gets better, it really does. DS is 9 now and he still has his moments but he backs down now. He talks to us and he seems to understand much better.

We only found nontraditional discipline to work. Lots and lots of talking and debriefing. Getting around the subject at other times. Absolutely refusing to engage when he does go off on one - damage control only. Giving him a lot of freedom and letting him make mistakes he will learn from. Talking in ways to get him to come to his own conclusions. It's not easy at all. No diagnosis here BTW.

YANBU, and now is it inevitable that your son has autism, ADD or anything else.

My five year old is amazing in so many ways. He is bright, funny, sociable, caring, helpful.....but he is very strong willed, and always has been. I walked out of his room at bedtime tonight because he has decided he wants a different lamp. I discussed it with him, but he ended up screaming, so I left the room. He co rubies for quite a while, and it is draining.

Hopefully they’ll all mellow with age (although DH likes to get what he wants - not that always does)

This is my son! He has always been like this from day one when he refused a dummy, refused to lay still under the lamp for his jaundice and had to have his protective glasses taped to his face because he just wouldn’t comply. And I just knew that this child was going to be a bloody defiant soul. Nothing like his sister at all.

I have to be tough on him, but also sometimes let him have his way when it doesn’t really matter.

But it is so hard, and I find exercising him like a springer spaniel helps. That and lots of access to creative stuff like art and craft so he can calm himself down. But I think he will always be this way. I am probably the same, determined and bloody minded so I can’t really blame him for the way he is.

YADNBU. I have just ended up shouting & almost in tears with DD9 ( we are waiting for paperwork from the specialist paediatrician to start the ball rolling for an official AS assessment). I feel so bad for shouting but it is just so difficult & we are floundering tbh. Poor kid ends up losing privileges but at the moment we don’t know what else to do 😞. Sorry that doesn’t help at all but you are not alone & it can be beyond frustrating

One of mine was like this at the same age, and it was hard work. The same thing would happen - I would remove a privelege because of rudeness, and they'd go on and on and on. For hours. All day.

You simply can't back down. Stuck record technique. I said no. I said no. I said no.

I'm a great believer in explaining things to kids, but with this type of child there's almost no point, because no explanation is going to be as satisfying as getting their own way. You need to be extremely boring and extremely repetitive. Over as long as it takes until it sinks in that they can't lever you away from your position. Disengage from their pleas and attempts to negotiate. It does sink in eventually. My child is older now and although still strong willed and stubborn, absolutely knows I will follow through and behaves very well most of the time.

I will absolutely not tolerate disrespect and rudeness from anyone, least of all someone I share my home with. I was not put on this earth to be spoken to like shit on my child's shoe., or to be hit, yelled at etc. My DC have all tried it on at times, and one thing that actually sunk in once they were past a certain age, was that I sat them down once they'd calmed, and explained that they actually did not have the right to treat me like that. No more than they do any other human being. As in, if they were older, they could be arrested for it and removed from the home. I think this worked because it shocked them, and made them take a step back and made them more aware of how they were behaving towards me

Yanbu it is exhausting. Hang in there.

Thanks all. Just having such a swift bunch of replies has made me well up.

I don't think it's autism or ODD - I have looked into them both. If I felt it was that, i wouldn't hesitate in admitting it but I genuinely think he's just unbelievably wilful.

THe denial of the reading was just because it was the last thing left in his day - and it's the first time I've ever denied it. I adore reading, I love that he's a reader. But I felt it was a swift, immediate consequence.

He is like this with everyone, but much more with me than DP. DP thinks it's because DS and I are very alike - we are. I know this. I am trying so hard to work this out so that he gets the best of me. I am trying not to argue, not to get into anything, to follow through, to be respectful and calm.

But I am only human and as I sit here crying, I wonder why I feel like he really doesn't love me, nor does he respect me, whatever I do. It's a really tough feeling.

Some good thoughts here, though. Thank you all.

Good lord it does not sound like autism in the slightest. It sounds like he is a very determined little boy, some kids just are. My DD is 6 and is very determined. Before I met her I thought good consistent parenting would always be enough. I know better now. I just hang onto the thought that determination is a good character trait in the long term (once emotional regulation develops!!).

This thread has cheered me up immensely. I sometimes think DS is going to break me.
Lack of sleep & lack of food make things worse but as food is a major issue and as he is a night owl by nature but we have to leave the house quite early in the mornings, there is only so much I can do to control these things.
I just get so bored of constantly being locked in battle. What makes it worse is that his older sister has, for the most part, always been good natured & compliant so life with her is so much easier.
DS get such entrenched views about the most minor & most random of things and has a very strong sense of fairness which, unfortunately, is very much skewed in his favour.

OP these discussions about your son's behaviour, have they only been with your partner? I ask because it sounds as if they have focused more on what you might (or might not!) be doing wrong and less on what might be going on with your son. You are clearly beating yourself up about things, and while I get that's a very normal way to feel I'm slightly wondering if the issues about your son not respecting you might be influenced by your partner as if he is saying that you are 'doing it all wrong' then that's not very respectful or supportive so your son could be picking that up.

I'm also slightly wondering why you feel that you can only be ever so gentle when your son is being very rude. Shouting in his face might not be the right thing, but I don't think there is anything wrong with showing that rude behaviour leads to an angry parent.

My ds was difficult as a little boy, still throwing tantrums at 7 (including at school), very strong willed and determined and struggled with the idea that his behaviour had consequences (and even once he got that it was a while before it made any difference in the moment). Things got a lot better as he's grown up. He still marches to his own drum, but mostly that's been an advantage (eg no issues with peer pressure as a teenager) and I'm very proud of him now he is a young man.

My dc2 is like this op, they are 7 as well. It is school holidays where I am, I was hitting the wine after day 1! No answers just commiserations.

Sorry, but it sounds nothing like autism or PDA.

Keep doing what you did tonight. Tell him he needs to be respectful and you will speak to him as and when he can do that.

I have one if these, she’s 11 now.

I feel like a crap parent but never felt like this with ds.

It took me 9 years to understand her. I read the Explisive Child and The Highly Sensitive Child. She is a combination of both of these😣. Willful, stubborn, persistent. All of these traits are in those books, and no sanction ever worked when she was younger as she just did not care.

Then at 9 she had really bad anxiety, and we realised that some of the behaviours were related to this too, so some stubbornness was actually about trying to control her environment.

But she was bloody hard work and still is, although she is much better. I try not to think ahead about the stormy waters of adolescence with these traits.

Some kids are born easy, and some aren’t. My first was easy and laid back my second isn’t. She’s still wonderful though. Same parent, 2 completely different kids

Oh and it is fine to try to be calm, but something in your tone or words has to indicate that his behaviour is making you angry. There is nothing wrong with that. He will be learning about normal, proportionate human responses - the first time he gets a warning, the second time he gets told off, third time you're sharper. Etc. If you speak to him in the same tone every time, how is he supposed to differentiate?

Go upstairs and tell him if he keeps calling out , he loses reading time tomorrow and mean it, no matter how well behaved he is tomorrow , if he calls out again tonight , no reading time tomorrow and repeat.

We all do it though , give in for a quiet life , even though we know it will mean more of the same. And 7yr olds are just generally a bit arsy, its not you and its not him, its just the way things are

Some great advice here. BiddydeBint, I salute you.

And some truths. I need to (and i know this but I need reminding on days like this):

Follow through always
Keep it boring, short, non-explanatory (in the moment) and talk to him when the red mist has passed
I need to explain that he has no right to treat me like this
I need to stick to my buns
Not accept the invitation to argue

My DP is a brilliant dad. They have a great relationship, but he also gets it in the neck. I have always had a more fractuous relationship with DS, always found it harder to say less, stick to my guns - I do but not consistently enough, I suspect.

It's so hard. I'm not making excuses, I'm the grown up. But it is so fucking hard and thankless a lot of the time.

The other thing that struck me is that while yes it's not great to get locked into escalating battles some things are worth fighting your ground on, so maybe pick your battles and fight them properly and let other things go more. So figure out what really matters to you and plan a strategy that includes telling your son at a quiet time after he has recovered from not being allowed his reading why you were so angry and how you plan to respond in future. Tactically sometimes a really flat 'you were rude and this is the consequence' on repeat type response works well. Also the occasional blow up isn't such a bad thing either. Parents are human too, and learning that you can get really mad and make up again afterward isn't such a bad bit of modeling. Some of me and ds's rows have become quite legendary (like the time he claimed that I shouted I'd rather he hadn't been born ). We're also all too alike!

I have found my wilful child needs a big consequence every so often eg turning around and heading home from a swimming trip while her sister carries on. Tantrum all the way home (on the bus!). Tantrum for the rest of the morning. Refusal to eat lunch. More tantrum.

But by the end of the day, she was calm and was clear that if I said bad behaviour would mean going straight home, that's exactly what would happen.

I knew she was likely to push it on that outing (it had been building up for weeks) so I'd arranged with DH what we'd do in advance. And for over a year after I could say 'remember coming home from swimming? I will always do what I say I will, are you sure you want to carry on behaving like this or do you want to try again?'.

Also, house rule is that if you shout or whine, the answer is ALWAYS no. Even if I would have said yes, if asked nicely.

Be strict. Be totally strict. Don't back down.

He knows you love him.

Denying him when he is a 'brat' will enforce it.

7 is a hormonal time, I have a 7yo DS with no additional needs and he can be wilful, stubborn and a complete drain on me. He is also the most wonderful child in the world. And means EVERYTHING to me.

I am hoping this wilfulness is a sign that he will be a success in whatever he does in the future as he will not just GIVE UP

But there are days when I end them shouting at him and the minute he's asleep I want to wake him and tell him how much I adore him really!

I don’t think it’s that he doesn’t respect you,
Op. My dd, like my very determined dh will go to incredible lengths to win arguments and say many things they don’t really mean to win.

I would take the words he says too seriously - he’s 7. My dd is 7 and she told me she’d rather be homeless than live with me the other day (this, over the hot button issue of what she was having for pudding)!

Occasionally, try laughing at some of the more ridiculous statements, it’s not what they’re expecting.

I hear you, DS 1 was a total nightmare to bring up. he was a clingy baby, a tantrumming toddler, a stroppy mid year kid, a nightmare teen, and I mean a real horror, fights, house damage, threats of violence, actual punches etc etc got no where with CaHMS persevered and to our delight and surprise he grew into a really nice human (now 25) he has a real insight into how awful he was, cant explain it but is remorseful and we have a really good relationship now. All I can say is persevere, its not easy, it may get worse for a few years but persevere. both my boys now thank us for staying with them and recognise that some of the rules / behaviours we insisted on and stuck with back then were the things that have made them into nice humans today. we are so so proud of them now but honestly... there were times when we never ever believed we would get there.

I have two wilful ones.

Two things have changed our lives
Bonnie Harris ‘when your kids push your buttons’
Laura Markham website (and book) aha parenting, peaceful parents, calm children.

It got better at seven, but it was bloody hard work.

oh and this want to scream in his face that I'm his mum, show some respect. yeah, I did this.... a lot still turned out nice in the end