Really selfish woman in Cafe today - need to vent!

[maryclare]

DD(2) on Easter holiday. Took her for a day shopping. Halfway through stop at a well know coffee shop for a treat. It was very busy and as we were queuing we were both looking around for a free table. All full except one in a corner which had 3 chairs, two of which had shopping bags on. People being served - lots with kids - walking round and round trying to find a space. We'd been queuing a long time, but I hadn't sent DD to 'bags' a space, partly because I didn't think it was fair to those in front of us, and partly because I know Mumsnetters feelings about doing this ;)

Woman in front of me gets served and takes her tray to the table with the shopping bags. She is about 60, and as far as I can see has no mobility/health issues to prevent her walking round searching for a table ONCE SHE HAS BEEN SERVED.
I am about to make a point and sit on the third chair when a two seated table becomes free nearby so DD and I sit there. Other people are still searching for seats. CF woman then puts one of the bags on the floor, and sits on that chair. Leaves the other bag on a chair and then TAKES HER COAT OFF AND PUTS IT OVER THE BACK OF THE LAST REMAINING CHAIR! I thought CF but maybe she was waiting for a friend. But no, DD and I were there 30 to 40 minutes in which time she had a drink and a sandwich and read the DMail cover to cover to pretend she didn't notice there were no seats. She was still there when we left.

AIBU to think that the cafe staff should have either stopped her 'reserving' a table in the first place or at least asked her to remove her things from the free seats so others could sit down?

Disclaimer: We're not halfway through the holidays yet and I am grumpy.

I'm actually hoping I get to sit next to pooryorick one day and I shall make a point of asking those I ask if ' I can sit here?' If that is their code name....

You would be most welcome. If I'm not using half the space, why on earth should you have to wander round with your food getting cold. I won't force conversation on you if you're clearly not up for it, but if you are, I'm sure we'll have a nice chat for a few minutes and it won't ruin anyone's day.

Code for you is, "Do I know you?" and I reply, "Yes, I am a fellow of infinite jest." Or just introduce yourself as Horatio.

Responding to welshgirl, if I am in my own with my son, I walk into a cafe and if there are plenty of empty tables then I queue up and then get a table after. If it is really busy, then I’m not stupid enough to take the risk of being unable to get a table and having drink my coffee stood up like an idiot at the school side of the cafe somewhere and I would for be it rude to approach someone to ask if I can sit with them.

40 minutes!? My son sat down to for a lunch of sandwich and soft drink in Quiznos yesterday and we sitting there for only 15 minutes (maybe less) and we were the only ones in the place, besides staff. Sounds like people are setting up residence in U.K. cafes.

Btw, Here in the U.S. it is unheard of to share a table with strangers.

I apologise for the horrendous predictive texting errors above, yes I know I should have previewed. I think this is fairly simple, go into a cafe, ensure a table obviously if there is more than one, before purchasing. Why take the risk? It doesn’t make sense.

Wow, ok, The way I read this was that you mentioned her age and that she seemed to be able-bodied, kind of as a "full disclosure" kind of thing.
Like, "Yes, she's somewhat elderly but she didn't seem to have any health issues. Therefore, I'm not giving her a pass on her age because she seemed as fine as everyone else."

Yes. I think it's terribly selfish to hog a table for 3 all to yourself in a busy place and it is wrong to make a table unavailable to people that have already paid for their items and are looking for a place to sit by putting your stuff all over it while you go stand in line.
She was wrong wrong wrong. I don't blame you for thinking she was selfish nor do I blame you for wanting to vent about her rudeness. Whether or not people COULD"VE/WOULD'VE asked her to move the stuff, doesn't make her less selfish for knowing the crowded circumstances and hogging the seats.
Whether or not it's a good idea to go into a crowded place...? is not the point. Who knows whether or not you were ABLE to search around for another less crowded place. Perhaps, given the day and time and holiday time nature, every place would've been crowded at that time. When there is a situation like that, it's a good idea for people to share...you know, the whole, "everything I need to know, I learned in kindergarten"
I'm a bit surprised at what seems to be many peoples attitudes towards you that you did the wrong thing for not thinking that what she did was perfectly fine and coming here to vent or that that you shouldn't have gone in there. What's up with that?
The amount of time you were there was not unreasonable and also, wouldn't have been unreasonable for her either, if she wasn't hogging two chairs for her coat and bags.
The only excuse I could give her would be if SHE had no choice but to be there and has an issue where she can't stand having others close to her. Seems slightly unlikely that SHE would be in a crowded place though. But, you never know. So, as far as good and polite behavior and rude behavior, I think she looked rude.

I’m struggling with the fact this thread is still going.
Cafe etiquette- Go to cafe, claim your table, order, eat your food in peace (unless you have the pleasure of a small child with you then don’t eat in peace).

Don’t order a meal and then loiter about looking desperately for a table. That’s just weird.
Plus it can make other people still Eating feel like they need To hurry up.

Oh and whether you are 81 or 21 or anything in between sit wherever the hell you like (but maybe don’t hog four chairs just for your bags).......

Don’t order a meal and then loiter about looking desperately for a table. That’s just weird

As weird as bagging three seats for yourself?

Life is too short to fret about this

People are different, not everybody is the same. Some of us are introverts, not everybody is sociable and wants to chat with strangers and there's nothing wrong with it nor does it mean that they should shut themselves at home with their coffee. Perfectly acceptable not to want to share a table with someone you don't know.

I had to endure it a couple of times; first a woman just sat there yelling at her mobile phone in a deeply irritating voice, and due to the proximity and volume I couldn't concentrate on my book. Second, the person actually kept staring at me, I could feel the stare wven though I was fiddling with my phone and became so umcomfortable I had to leave before I finished my coffee.

I especially wouldn't want to share a table with someone like PoorYorick who seems to believe everybody who is less sociable than her is somehow a lesser person and needs to be forced into interaction or deserves to have abuse hurled towards them (how many expletives are needed for you to prove your non existent point? get your meds in).

As for the user asking what to do if they arrive at a cafe alone having no other way to bag a table: walk away. That's what I do if a place is that busy. The problem is, people are obsessed with certain coffee shops and you will often find nice non chain cafés nearby with plenty tables and reasonably priced food.

What NO ONE should do is to stand around holding a tray of food getting colder by the second, looking anxiously at other customers. It frankly looks pathetic. Café too busy? Get someone to find you a table, have your drink/food and don't linger forever - or take your custom elsewhere.

South it is weird to order food and then loiter about.
I’ve never known anyone do this tbh or seen it.
What would you do make puppy dog eyes at people for their table.
It sounds desperate.
I wouldn’t share a table either. I pay to eat on my own or in the company I choose. If I want to sit next to a stranger I could take a sandwich to a park bench.
But hogging the chairs was possibly rude if she was aware that others went without. However if I need a chair in a cafe and someone had several spare, i just ask “can I take one of these chairs as my table is short of the amount we need”. And normally the person has been so engrossed in their book/conversation they haven’t realised other people are short of chairs. They smile at me, move their bags and say “of course”.
Only on mumsnet are you expected to order food before being guaranteed a seat, share with strangers, and for there to be an issue about chairs, when anyone with any common sense needs a chair and asks!

I am a grandmother of 71 and I hope you will forgive me joining your group but I have two lovely grandchildren who I help to look after some days and like to get young Mum ideas upon things to do with them.
I needed to have a hip replacement last year and became very disabled before my operation and I also found some people very selfish when it came to considering that other people might need a seat. I agree that more publicity should be made about people being more thoughtful generally to others regarding sharing seating space but especially to the elderly and disabled. It isn’t until you become disabled that you realise just how much able people don’t notice you or realise how difficult it is and so need a seat. I agree that some people do only care about themselves and that restaurants and hotels need to take action to prevent people hogging seats. If your not about to sit on it then don’t take it I say. I have adopted my own plan now and that is ask to sit in it and if they say no tell the management.

Pre-bagging a table when it’s busy is a bit selfish. She’s a boomer though!

I once waited in a small Starbucks for a table to be free after i bought my drink. My baby was asleep (yay) and I really fancied sitting down and not usual take away. I could see a group of three were finished, sitting with coats on. After 5 mins they still weren’t budging so a member of staff, helped me to squeeze through tiny corner area with pram to one available stool at the window. As soon as I sat down and took my jacket off, the table of 3 got up and left. I had to stop myself running after them and taking a swing!

@LaSorpresa, really?

Just because you have a baby, doesn’t mean others need to jump to give way to you. I never expected people to do for me just because I had small children with me.
How do you know they weren’t taking those five minutes to just to relax and decide where to go next? Not everyone leaves as soon as they take their last sip or bite.

This reminds me of the parents griping that someone wouldn’t let their toddler have the single toilet bathroom ahead of them, insisting that person was a selfish jerk (they complained often like this when adults didn’t bow out of their precious way). While it may have been nice to let the parents take the kid in first, that person arrived before them, and oh, they may also have been just about to burst/having a stomach issue/bad menses. That would be worse as some parents can take a long time getting a toddler to “make tinkle.”

On the other side of the coin, I’ve seen plenty of people complain about parents and prams in crowded eateries. So someone always thinks someone else is selfish.

I don’t understand how you can muster the energy to be annoyed about this. I’ve read your message three times and I still don’t understand the issue!!

First thing I do is grab a table and throw my coat or wherever over it . Then go order I mean it makes sense especially when u have children that are about to go into nuclear meltdown . Yes I agree a bit cheeky but the woman def didn’t want anyone sitting near her. If it were me I don’t cover unused chairs and always offer them if I see anyone looking for one . I don’t even mind sharing tables . I wouldn’t let it annoy u :)

So some of you really think it is ok to walk into a cafe, see a line of people waiting to order food and then make sure that at least one of them won't be able to get to a table because you have walked in after them and claimed it as yours. Who do you think you are?

I especially wouldn't want to share a table with someone like PoorYorick who seems to believe everybody who is less sociable than her is somehow a lesser person

I don't think people who are less sociable than I am are lesser people. I think people who have half a table going to waste in a busy space, and would rather see someone walk around for half an hour than just sit there are dickheads.

If you are so unsociable/anti-social that you can't share a table in a busy café with a stranger then don't go to cafés, you selfish numpties.

Also don't use a busy train either unless you intend to pay for a second seat for your bags.

And if you don't move your bags for me, I'll thoroughly and publicly shame and embarrass you. On balance, probably best to not be a selfish dickwad, eh?

What NO ONE should do is to stand around holding a tray of food getting colder by the second, looking anxiously at other customers. It frankly looks pathetic

I would ask how you can't see how horrible and anti-social (and even illogical) this is, but you're apparently 'introverted', and while that does have a real meaning, it's a very established code word on here.

And if you don't move your bags for me, I'll thoroughly and publicly shame and embarrass you.

I've never had anyone refuse to move their bags after I politely asked them. But I have a friend who, when her polite request was met with a refusal, shrugged and just sat down on the bag.

I would want to do this, but I'm not sure I'd have the guts in reality. This woman's totally fearless though.

To everyone who says they wouldn’t share a table, I have met some really interesting people when I have shared a table. My colleague and I regularly go to the local “Pay as you feel” cafe, both together and alone and the tables there are long 8, 10, 12 chairs, this is done on purpose to force people to share and talk to each other. The food is lovely too.

Why do some people equate 'share a table' with 'share your life history and become best friends'. I would happily share a table with a stranger in a busy cafe (would be a bit weird in a quiet one ) but I wouldn't want to chat to them, I would go straight back to my book after a polite hello.
I have however had people ignore the obvious social clue of my reading my book and start in on talking to me as though I was their best friend. I don't indulge them. I have no doubt they go home (or onto MN) and complain about the rude woman in the cafe who clearly has no social skills.
And wooo69 I would not go to any cafe that tried to force me into to talk to people, it sounds appalling. I am quite capable of choosing for myself when to talk to people and when I want to be by myself. The same with cafes and restaurants that don't allow you to use mobile phones, 'so people have to actually interact'. Its just saying 'I don't approve of your lifestyle, you should be ashamed, I am going to do my best to make you live according to mine'. I am quite able to sit through a meal without using my phone and able to choose not to socialise with people who can't. Having to socialise with someone who has been forced into a particular behaviour isn't going to make a jolly meal so why bother. That kind of cafe is only for people who want to virtue signal about who much better they are because they aren't addicted to social media/anti-social etc.
That turned into a right rant but I get ranty about that.
I also totally understand that some people love to go out for a chat with strangers, I just wish some of them weren't so unable to understand that not everyone is like that.

I think you are lucky that this is a big problem for you. If you were in Syria right now, you'd have other things on your mind.

Did she say it's a big problem? Not that I can recall. Also Cold - newsflash - it's actually possible to have all kinds of things on your mind, at the same time.