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pt.2 To find floral tributes being left for Harry Vincent offensive

999 replies

lostjanni · 11/04/2018 20:35

We reached the post limit so if anyone wants to carry on the discussion...

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jaimelannistersgoldenhand · 15/04/2018 21:01

I sincerely hope that the police prevent the funeral procession going past the house. If not, residents will use their vehicles to block their way or will form some sort of blockade.

The police should not allow the memorial on the fence. The owner must be terrified that their fence has become a shrine to scum and it looks like it's a matter of time before it is damaged by someone. Would insurance pay as presumably there would be no crime number?

The world is a better place without HV. His premature death has saved lots of future victims from heartache. He is a victim of his upbringing but police, social services etc seem to have a policy of not coming down hard on travellers as they do on "normal people" so until then, change can not happen. Even if they wanted help, they wouldn't want it from mainstream agencies. The police should know by now that turning a blind eye leads to innocent people suffering eg the grooming gangs, extremism... The police's attempts to be fair and tolerant has lead to certain groups laughing in the face of "kindness" and taking advantage of innocents.

I feel extremely sorry for the Osborn-Brooks. Even though what he did was in self-defence, he must be haunted by the aftermath and I can't imagine that he'll ever be safe and certainly not be able to return home

lougle · 15/04/2018 21:24

Reading the Commissioner's full statement, which I've edited down for brevity, I think he was very balanced:

"This is a tragedy for the family who have lost a loved one. It is also a tragedy for the homeowner forced to take the action he did. I am pleased we got the quickest possible decision for him in relation to his actions.

'It would have been preferable if the pavement had remained clear and the local area had not become the focus of disruption which then needed police resources to manage.

'The local authority are considering how the flowers and items are managed and we are inputting to that. As the situation stands, that is how this has to be dealt with as laying flowers is not a crime.

'We want those laying flowers to respect the local people and the impact on them. Those opposed to the flowers should act responsibly, respectfully and reasonably. As the Borough Commander said yesterday we don't want anyone – the local people or those vising the scene – to feel intimidated...."

This is a tragedy for HV's family. He was wrong, completely wrong, to break and enter a property, and to threaten an older couple in the process. He completely deserved to be caught and punished for that, and most likely for many other crimes that he hadn't been caught for, then go to prison for a very long time. He didn't expect or deserve to die. However, I do believe that if it had come down to a struggle between he and RO-B, he would not have hesitated to kill him first if he could have.

The family are clearly of a lifestyle that lives apart from the usual conventions of society, and their rule book is not the same as ours. But that doesn't mean it hurts less when their family dies. They should be allowed to mourn, of course. But not in a way that infringes the rights of other people to live their lives in safety.

This death is also tragic for RO-B. He didn't go to bed that night expecting that he would be a killer by morning. I don't think he is delighted that he killed HV. I doubt he's 'glad he got rid of some scum'. I expect he wishes that he'd been able to call 999 and that the police had caught HV, then he'd tucked his wife up and give back to bed. His life will never be the same again, and neither will his wife's. This will be the last thing he remembers, after 80 years on this Earth. That's tragic.

So, whilst it's sensational news for a while, and the hype is great for selling papers and causing an outcry, it's a new reality for a few, and for those who have to live there. Those vigilantes won't have the stamina to see this mess through, the police won't even begin, and all that leaves is some scared residents and some very powerful travellers Sad

Trumpdump · 15/04/2018 21:38

Ffs, I've just seen that hey put the balloons and flowers OVER the 'neighborhood watch' sign! I'd like to think that they didn't mean anything by it, but going on their past actions I'm not so sure. Angry

Personwithhorse · 16/04/2018 07:08

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bellabasset · 16/04/2018 07:15

The tributes were removed by the council and the police did not allow flowers or tributes to be stapled to the fenc

bellabasset · 16/04/2018 07:18

Posted too soon:
fences yesterday.

So no doubt they will be looking at the funeral arrangements.

Mydoghatesthebath · 16/04/2018 07:21

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letsgomaths · 16/04/2018 07:45

I expect the residents will form some sort of blockade, and the police will be watching closely. The residents must be thinking "if the authorities won't act, we will". As for funeral directors; are they able to refuse to provide for a funeral if they don't like the customers, or would they be done for "discrimination"? I expect local funeral directors are talking to each other quite a lot right now.

I keep thinking about the authorities' approach to this; they've been appearing to do nothing, apart from two council workers removing the birthday shrine yesterday (good for them; I was surprised that happened, I expect it took a few hours of meetings). I expect the police knew that was going to happen, and might have been ready to pounce if the council workers had been spat on or attacked, for instance. Are the police and the council just quietly hoping that this will blow over, and that there are more important things happening in the world just now?

I'm also a bit surprised this hasn't escalated further so far; it hasn't yet gone "out of the flowers and into the fire". I'm wondering if the police are nervously anticipating far worse, which is why they're keeping a presence, even if they're not appearing to do much; flowers are much easier for them to deal with than riots. Are the friends of HV biding their time until the police remove their vigil, before they act en masse? Do they have the backup and herd mentality that a certain disaffected group did in 2011? Were something on that scale to happen, would the courts be working overtime afterwards like they did? I'm surprised that happened, in Cameron's age of austerity.

As for Mr Osborn Brooks: is he going to get help from the taxpayer with a new home and identity if it comes to it? Is it time to spend a small fortune on the victims of crime for once, instead of on the perpetrators?

This event has certainly got people talking; about the right to defend your own home, and about a certain group of people, who don't seem to get a lot of airtime. Remember when "immigration" was the buzzword? We're hearing "these people" a lot, as if people are trying to avoid certain words beginning with "t" or "g".

Aeroflotgirl · 16/04/2018 07:54

My heart goes out to Richard OB who was minding his own business. Resting in his home when this lowlife chose to break and enter his home and threaten him, no sympathy for a criminal and his vile nasty family.

Aeroflotgirl · 16/04/2018 09:11

Somehow I do not feel anything for the criminal who died, but disgust. He was there to rob and threaten the elderly man and his disabled wife, mabey kill, thank god for the strength and guts of Mr Osborne-Brooks, it could well have been him on that floor dead. I don't feel it was a tragic death, why is it tragic that a criminal was killed by a victim defending themselves.

Slievenamon · 16/04/2018 09:13

So you've been saying for a week Aero, are you ever going to stop saying it? It must be at least a hundred times now. Hmm

Trumpdump · 16/04/2018 09:16

I imagine that the poor Hither Green residents are terrified. The people who tore down the flowers have all been from another area, so I wonder if the neighbors were advised against getting involved? It's clear that the police are taking the travelers' side here and are more concerned about causing offense than any retaliation attacks. SadAngry

IIIustriouslyIllogical · 16/04/2018 09:28

Well at least the stereotypical reputation & image of the travelling community have been shown to be totally inaccurate, we should all hang our heads in shame!

Oh, hang on.........

GnotherGnu · 16/04/2018 09:42

The "No sympathy" response is so trite and meaningless. How does it advance the discussion one iota?

Aeroflotgirl · 16/04/2018 09:53

Thanks for your great observation Sliev well I think discussion has no reached a stalemate anyway. You have those the feel sorry for HV camp and his family, and those that don't, there you go then.

TSSDNCOP · 16/04/2018 09:53

I noticed a report in the press at the weekend that one of the Kray’s men has spoken up in defence of Mr O-B.

I wondered if that’s why yesterday’s protest had been damped down. I know you will all say the Krays are gone etc, but I think you’d be surprised just how much pull there still is there.

As to the undertaker, they’ll be a long-serving firm that have done tonnes if traveller funerals. Expect horses with plumes and flat-bed trucks heaving with floral tributes.

It’ll surely be down to the police to approve the route. Going past the site of the crime or death will take the procession considerably out of its way if I’ve got my google map right.

Slievenamon · 16/04/2018 09:53

great, could you shut up then? Thanks

TSSDNCOP · 16/04/2018 09:57

Was that to me?

Mightymucks · 16/04/2018 09:58

TSS, a lot of the people who surrounded the Krays are still very much alive and still associate with each other. That’s a good point though, I suspect that may have chastened them a bit.

Aeroflotgirl · 16/04/2018 09:59

Slivernamon I ask that of you too, works both ways does it not!

TSSDNCOP · 16/04/2018 10:01

Mighty it was Frankie Frasier that was quoted. I had a little bet with myself that things might tone down and whether it’s a coincidence or not, was just pleased for the Hither Green residents that this threatened civil rights march fell on its arse.

Alpineflowers · 16/04/2018 10:18

TSSDNCOP-Mighty it was Frankie Frasier that was quoted.

It was Freddie Foreman TSS

Slievenamon · 16/04/2018 10:25

Not really, since I haven't simply been repeating the same thing over and over again like you have

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