pt.2 To find floral tributes being left for Harry Vincent offensive

[lostjanni]

We reached the post limit so if anyone wants to carry on the discussion...

• Henry, not Harry. Think the title of the thread is wrong, so got myself confused - sorry.

But Bob - travelling families don't WANT that sort of help, a lot of the time. They've made an active choice to live life by different rules to society.

I totally agree that HV was the product of his upbringing; you only have to look at the crime records of his father and uncles to see that. But how can you intervene in a closed community that wouldn't welcome any help from mainstream society, or indeed see it as help?

^^ yip SaucyJane

They don't want any intervention, Bob, they are completely outside of society and want it that way. They think we are all mugs. And they are pretty much beyond most forms of authority anyway, bar the justice system (aka. police/arrests/jail). They scare the shit out of everyone else.

To be honest, referring to the Vincent clan as "travellers" is a bit like referring to the Krays as Cockneys. It might be accurate in a historical sense, but it doesn't really describe anything of use. They aren't "travellers" in a way that we would understand the term in 2018.

They are, pretty much, a crime family. It's their trade, so to speak. And they don't see anything wrong with it.

Highly likely a brain abnormality (no different than a deformed foot or any other body part) could be to blame. Possibly genetic. An inability to be empathetic. It really may not be due to some horrific early childhood upbringing.
A generation of children the world over grew up when physical punishment was the norm and the age to leave home was 13. Millions didn’t turn to a life of crime.
This concept of poor criminal, such a difficult life, is misguided.

It is saddening that the police are pandering to this intimidation. The family have the right to grieve, but not to use their grief as a weapon against terrified pensioners who probably thought they were going to be tortured and killed.

It’s all very well to feel sorry for HV’s life. Fair enough.

But right now it’s the 78 year old man and his wife who I feel for. They have been threatened with death.

I still don't understand why they've not be arrested for intimidation. Last time I checked that was a criminal offence or am I missing something.
If the scumbag wasnt violating someone's home. It wouldn't have happened. That's not my humble opinion. That's a fact.
As I've alluded to as far as I'm concerned
Richard deserves a knighthood for bravery.

Katie Hopkins Has claimed that she will tear the shrine down when she returns to the U.K. In a few days... this is becoming quite the circus...

Trust that grasping sack of hate-filled shit to seize on it as an opportunity to promote herself

I'd suggest that the difficulties of prosecuting someone for intimidation based on their leaving flowers are pretty obvious.

However, if there is good evidence of the person/people responsible for death threats against the Osborn-Brooks, that would be a different matter.

The police have it wrong if they are telling people not to remove flowers.

The residents don't want them there hey shouldn't be there. The police should be looking out for law abiding people not crime families.

Shameful.

I'm glad he's dead simply because he now won't be able to hurt anyone else. That's a positive thing. I too hope his children receive any help they need; he's not their fault.

The tributes are intimidation and in horribly poor taste, and must not be allowed to remain.

Ivebeenaroundtheblock - I couldn't disagree more. In my line of work I've worked with hundreds of offenders in prison. Not one. Not one single one has not had some form of pretty heavy abuse or trauma in their life. In terms of abuse, it's often been all three kinds and very often pretty damn severe. They r often pretty 'hard' as a result and it's definitely not the first thing they tell you. Furthermore - if all around you are offenders, you will learn offending. If your parents are pro-offending, you will learn that too.

We are not helping acces to some members of the travelling community that need help, by hating them and spreading a message of hate.

If I thought I was hated, I wouldn't let the outside world in either.

In order to help future children from troubled families, we have to start being more compassionate. We have to start to want to understand rather than spreading hate.

Hate follows hate.

BTW, I feel desperately for the elderly gentleman in this case who has been through a horrific experience and my heart goes out to him and his family.

I also feel for the family of Henry, who have lost a father/son/brother. No matter what people think of this family, they have just been hit by the death of someone so very young and will be grieving. His children are now without their daddy. I hope these children will be given support. I really hope they are not targets of hate.

I think the police should have spoken to the both the family and the owner of the fence. Not only were women climbing up to attach them to the fence but they've been pulled down several times potentially damaging it. I have sympathy for this owner.

Richard Osborn-Brooks went to bed and ended up finding himself facing a criminal and killing him. It was more likely to be the other way round. Not only is he trying to come to terms with the distress that he unwittingly killed someone, the terror of being burgled in the dark but he can no longer live in his family home. With his wife being ill she must be very distressed living in a strange environment.

The family may wish to mourn the dead unemployed criminal but this is an inappropriate place. I have no doubt that the pp's description was correct. We do seem to protect the criminals rights over those of hard working people.

Extract from The Express about Henry’s family. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree it seems. How anybody can defend this scumbag and his scumbag family is beyond me.

“His father went on the run and was not caught until 2010. He was jailed for six years in 2011.

That same year, Vincent’s uncles James and Robert and his cousin Amos were jailed for a total of 17 years for another cowboy builder scam.

In 2016, Vincent’s uncle Robert, preyed on a 68-year-old man in Haringey, north London, who handed over £14,000 for roof repairs.

The crook even tried to convince him to sign over his £540,000 house.

In 2003 Vincent, his father Henry Vincent Snr and five of his uncles were jailed for a total of more than 28 years between them for a £450,000 building scam.

They would knock on the doors of elderly people telling them they had structural problems with their homes and quoting large fees to fix them.

The victims were then pressured into paying, with some even being marched to the banks to withdraw funds.

One woman in her 80s ended up signing over her £150,000 home to cover the cost of guttering and other building work.

In 2007, Vincent’s cousins, William and Amos were both jailed for a series of so-called distraction burglaries in south-east London.

The pair would pose as officials from the water board to divert elderly victims’ attention while they were robbed.

Two women aged 83 and 90 fell victim. After Vincent was released from his 2003 four-year jail term for the cowboy builders scam, he and his father conned an 81-year-old pensioner out of £72,000 to repair a single tile on his roof, a job which should have cost just £50.

Vincent was then jailed for six years in 2009 for more building work scams, but was then let out of prison early.

His father went on the run and was not caught until 2010. He was jailed for six years in 2011.

That same year, Vincent’s uncles James and Robert and his cousin Amos were jailed for a total of 17 years for another cowboy builder scam.

In 2016, Vincent’s uncle Robert, preyed on a 68-year-old man in Haringey, north London, who handed over £14,000 for roof repairs.

The crook even tried to convince him to sign over his £540,000 house.”

To be fair, he wasn't his family. I'm glad Vincent is dead because of the things he did and would likely have continued to do, like the 2003 and 2009 scams listed there. Not because of his father and uncles. His own actions are enough!

There is something really disturbing about the police telling locals to respect this family's grief whilst at the same time fire officers are installing alarms in the victims home to try to keep it safe from revenge attacks by the same family. It's a joke.

It's easier to side with the bullies than confront them. This is nothing new, seen it a thousand times before.

If I though I was hated I wouldn't let the outside world in
I don't know, I think I might ask myself why I was hated , if I was doing anything to justify that hate, and if there was anything I could to change the situation.

It's a hard line though of when do the police get the right to remove public memorials? Its an interesting moral judgement that they cant win and want no part of.
How do you decide the crime is bad enough they shouldn't receive a memorial ?
A kid who dies in a gang fight?
Heroin user that overdoses?
Someone who gets run over evading the police after shop lifting? What if they are running from a drug deal? Or a violent crime?
Car chase? If the cars stolen?

@Bob13 - I can tell the social justice warriors are out in force already.

When the memorial is intimidating the victims of the deceased and when they've been threatened with revenge already, would be a good start. It's important we don't identify this as Vincent not being entitled to a memorial: it's about the location of it.

It is not the Police's role to remove or ban the flowers, it is the local council. I don't think either organisation are pandering to bullies, they are in a precarious position.

On the one had residents have the right to feel safe. If the Police/Council ignore that, they might take matters into their own hands, worsening the situation.

On the other hand, while the flowers may be placed in that particular location for less than honorable reasons, the grief the family are feeling is real. Police and council members need to respect that and allow them an outlet for their grief. If they're too heavy handed in dealing with them, it could ignite the situation further.

It's not a position I'd like to find myself in.

I'm sure any threat made outside of 'some bloke said his cousin heard someone in the pub say..." printed in The Daily Mail, are being taken seriously and arrests will be made if/when the police find enough evidence.

snow was absolutely right, spot on tbh. I certainly do not feel sad that a criminal was killed in the middle of committing a crime, that is what happens when you live close to the edge. I fail to understand why anybody would have any sympathy for a criminal breaking into an elderly persons house, to rob or harm, and the person defending themselves which results in the criminal dying. I just would not care less.

As I said, the poor homeowner will have to live the rest of his days, with this on him, my heart goes out to him. Instead of a quiet and uncomplicated retirement, he has this to deal with, for that I am so angry with the criminals. Not only that, the poor man has Mr Vincent's nasty family to deal with, and has to live a life of fear now. Sorry If I offend people because I don't feel sad at this criminals death.