Gloaty, smug parent- how do I manage this better?

[Dogjustguffed]

Due to see my friend tomorrow with her DD and my DS. Her DD is nearly 4, my DS is 6 and a half. Friend is obsessed with getting her DD ahead of her peers with reading and numbers. On the other hand, I very much took the view that the preschool years were for socialising and play. My DCs started school counting to 10 and knowing letters/alphabet but that was it!

Last time I was there my friend had written down some random words which are quite long sometimes (things like window, chair, cooker, butterfly etc). She changes them every week, and gets her DD to learn them. I am no expert but I think that the DD is just recognising the word itself rather than reading in the sense of understanding how the letters create a word.

Anyhow...last time I was there she introduced this ‘game’ to me by asking my DS to read the words on that week’s list. My DS is fine at reading so read it easily enough. She then announces loudly that her DD can read them too, and gets DD to recite.

This annoyed me, as it’s unfair to compare children like this (as if it’s a competition) and how awful would DS have felt if he hadn’t been able to read the words and then a 4 year old could have?

I was so surprised that I just stared at her and then said “Well done both DCs”. She then went on about how advanced her child was- in front of the children- and then I just said something about how the early years were all about play and socialising for my DS, but great that she was so happy with her DDs progress. Friend didn’t grasp that I was not engaging her in competition.

How do I manage this better this time? I want to halt any competition before it even starts!

If she's a good friend then say something to her. You don't want to lose a friend just because they've gone a bit loopy about their child. I'd just explain how I/DS felt and that we want to play and chat at their house, not be tested on school things.

I don't have kids but I'm a teacher and a couple of years ago a friend's reception-aged child say next to me at dinner. She got a menu and I started 'teaching' without realising it, asking the girl about which sounds she knew and if she could try to read certain words. Me friend put a quick stop to it, saying, "she's not at school now, she doesn't have to do all that". Made me realise what I was doing and I'm more aware of how I am with younger children now when not in the classroom. If she'd not said anything and then decided just to cut me off? I'd have lost a friend just for something I didn't even realise I was doing.

SoozC

Obviously it's good to be self-aware, conscious of how you behvae etc., but I don't read your post and think 'How awful that she was reading with a child', I read it and think, 'How awful that the mother is reinforcing the idea that reading is boring, that it is something we do at school, and by extension that school is boring'. Was the child engaged? If so, is that not the point of the exercise? And if not, fair enough.

I have peeled myself away from parents like this who competitively parent. It’s so rife these days and I really don’t know why. Distance yourself, it’s harmfik for everyone and will drive you insane.

DH and I are both in very academic jobs and we’re strsight A students. We did this with no parental input (as was the norm in the 70s and 80s, this over involvement is new) and at very normal state schools. We are lucky to know first hand that you don’t need to push. We strategically sent our kids to play led pre schools and deliberately didn’t front load (neither asked about what signs/words said or actively picked up a pen and asked to write so we didn’t encourage). They were ‘behind’ their nursery peers on starting school. We don’t do Homework. We do read with them but are led by them and not by silly (ever changing) government targets.

Within 6 months of starting school they had caught up and overtaken peers in reading and writing. They were both significantly ahead of the (silly) government targets for some time and we firmly believe it’s because they learned properly and thirstily at a time when they were ready from expert teachers and weren’t force fed academic stuff badly and incorrectly when too young. At 8, everyone has more or less caught up to the same level there or thereabouts and they are all pretty much on a par, so I’m pretty convinced the front loading is either useless or unhelpful.

It also makes me sad that it takes away from genuinely child initiated play when little. And phonics are invariably taught badly by non teachers, and teachers then have a job re teaching once they start school.

I do think we are in an epidemic of pushy parenting and parents who seek validation from what their child can do. Why? I think my children are marvellous but I’m pretty confident they are just normal human beings and not super human genii and I don’t expect interest never mind adoration from anyone other than their immediate family. Why are we as a society so keen to create genii? What does it say about us?

My children's primary school used to set for maths. My ds and a friend were invited to another boy's house for tea. From what the host parent said to me they spent the entire evening testing ds and friend to find out why they were in set 1, whilst their son was only in set 2 (of 4). They decided that ds and friend were the same level/slightly lower than their son. They used this information to speak to the school . Strangely, the school didn't change setting based on this information.

Ds had a thoroughly nice evening and enjoyed the maths.

Oh my Goodness. Can you imagine them saying to the school "Well i know my ds should be in set one as I've tested two set one children on all maths topics when they came for tea and they were equal/weaker than my son."

Pengggwn, I take your point but I think what I was trying to say is, lots of people on here are telling the OP to dump this friend straightaway but simply speaking to her may resolve the situation.

I couldn't be bothered really. Life's too short for self-centered boring one-upmanship. What is it with people who can't have an adult conversation once they've had a child, and do that tedious "my child is the best" thing? I'd ease out of that friendship quickly, who wants to sit there listening to all that. Your DS had or can make other friends I should imagine. Same for you.

I’ll send you a copy of a reading test which assesses reading age ( comprehension ) .Take it with you the next time you see her and suggest her child doing it as she’s so advanced.

SoozC

Oh, of course. Much better to have a conversation.

She sounds awful. Does she send those self congratulating Christmas letters?

Hmmm have to my experience was that this sort of parent gets worse not better. My children are older but one thing I would have differently is that I would not have kept up with this type. .... your description reminds me of so called play dates with mothers who did indeed go on to be really unpleasant and cause real harm. Years on I am still careful to avoid them .... wish I had avoided them from the start.

100% agree. Preschool is for children to learn how to socialise be decent human beings. I've read about teachers saying that kids in their school know how to read and write but can't be nice or behave.

Ok, so I think we’re all dying to know... how did it go?!?

I hope it went well for you. Children can learn words through fun times and if your visit includes some quiet time where you both engaged with the children you could introduce interactive reading or word games where both children are involved. However, play is also an important medium for engaging with your children and it would be better on a non school day to play with them. Family games are fun.

At the pre-school nursery my son attended, one proud grandparent told her grandson loudly to write his name - which he was able to do. My son couldn't even recognise letters at this stage. Fast forward to secondary and both this child and my son attended grammar schools and certainly in my son's case did well. What I'm saying is at this stage it's all rather petty and irrelevant. As long as your child is able to do the basics when he leaves school and has his health, why worry?

You are right that her DD is most probably recognising word patterns rather than building sounds into words.

The fact that she is using long and "difficult" words is a big clue here.

Can her DD differentiate between (say) bit, bat, bet etc

(Not that I'm suggesting you call her out on this and humiliate her and her DD, but that would be a better indication of reading ability).

Your friend is the one with the problem. Her DD may be "advanced", she may not, but either way she doesn't need to be pushed into being competitive.

Could she be trying to give her DD confidence? That would be more acceptable in my opinion- except that she doesn't have the right to build her child's self-esteem at the expense of your DS.

If your DS gets upset about it, tell him that she might know some words, but isn't at the stage of being able to work out how to say an unfamiliar word like he is.

Bear in mind that when her clever clogs daughter goes to school she may well get bored as she knows so much already. It won't do her any favours with her little school mates either - no-one likes a know-all.

Hello again!

It was okay. I moved the location to a soft play place, so moved away from the lists. I suspect she’ll always be a pushy parent tbh, but I did take a deep breath and say that I felt that the list thing was unfair on everyone, most importantly the DCs. I explained that i was sure she hadn’t meant it to come across like that, but I wasn’t up for any more little tests.

Friend was a bit surprised and just said that it hadn’t been her intention to put the DCs into a stressful or competitive place. I said I just wanted play dates to be play. She implied I was being overly sensitive, I said we would agree to differ.

It was definitely awkward for a while. But at least I have protected my DS, and she has had fair warning of where my boundary is. Sigh.

Send her this.

I know someone who was like this with their PFB (and to a lesser degree, her subsequent children too), and as i’m a fairly relaxed parent with a fairly relaxed child, I put up with it for years, finding it amusing most of the time. The sticking point came when she moved her children to my children’s school (they had to move house to do so), and her weird parenting skills started to affect my own child’s happiness. Funnily enough it wasn’t the academic competitiveness that tipped me over the edge (she once boasted her child was doing more difficult spellings, whereupon I said if that was the case, I would go in and complain as most of the other children found their spellings ridiculously easy - that soon shut her up!! 😂) but the fact that she was so intense in other ways. She wanted our daughters to be together ALL the time even when they went getting on together, and even told my DD’s friend to leave DD and her DD alone to have some time together at a party!!! She had them holding hands in the morning line up to walk into class together - it went on and on, proper loony bin behaviour. I think the morale of my story is step away now, intense mother’s like your friend need to be avoided! Good luck!

Well done, OP

(And well done me. I checked back on this thread at just the right time!)

These people rarely change IME. I avoid these types as much as possible. Well done for speaking up, hopefully that will be the end of it.

I never pushed mine, and sometimes came across these comptitive types in the playground. I just refused to engage.

I find it interesting that most European countries have higher literacy rates than Britain, yet a good number don't start with the reading, etc until about 6 or 7 years of age. I agree that children should be being socialised first, and learning the soft skills through play.

Thanks everyone for your good advice on this. I knew it wasn’t right (and I take school seriously- it’s not like I don’t care about DSs education) but your contributions helped me be clear and firm. for everyone!