Who was unreasonable in this cafe?

[PartyRingss]

I was having a coffee earlier in a busy high street cafe and witnessed a couple of women having an argument.

It was very busy in there today and I looked up when I heard raised voices. Woman 1 was sat down at a table for 4 on her own with no food or drink. Woman 2 was stood there holding a tray with food and drink on with her two smallish children (I'd say around 4/5/6 years old.)

She had obviously asked woman 1 if she could have the table as she didn't have her food/drink but was obviously told no. That's when woman 2 started raising her voice saying she shouldn't be saving tables when the cafe is so busy whilst people with their food then have nowhere to sit.

Woman 1 argued loudly "well you should have made sure you had somewhere to sit before getting your food " to which the other woman shouted "well I can't leave my kids at a table and get food!" Woman one then told her that her dh would be here in a minute and at that moment another couple offered woman 2 the other half of their table of 4 so she sat with them and pulled up a chair to sit on the end and she made comments about "selfish people."

Meanwhile woman 1 sat defiantly for 10 minutes looking out the window until her husband had been served at the counter and came with their drinks and sandwiches. When he arrived at their table a few other tables were becoming free.

Now I know it is sense sometimes to make sure you have somewhere to sit when at a cafe where you have to take a tray and help yourself to sandwiches etc and get your hot drinks and food orders at the counter. But surely when it's busy and there are several people in front of your partner at the counter then it becomes a bit selfish, especially if you sit watching people walk around with no where to sit to eat their food. Not everyone can leave someone to reserve a table such as children for instance.

Surely by the time someone has been served other tables become free like in this case. It was so awkward watching this woman be so defiant at giving up the table for someone who had food already purchased with 2 kids in tow and rather her sit crammed up with a couple of people she didn't know, especially when her husband was quite far off being served. If it's not that busy then I don't really see an issue but it was busy and the staff were rushed off their feet.

I think woman 1 was massively unreasonable!

Which is why if I was alone with my Austic son I wouldn’t dream of going somewhere which wasn’t table service as I NEED to be able to ensure a table and I can’t leave him and he can’t srand and queue anyway.

If I am with another adult we will get a table get one adult and ds settled and then one adult queue.

The cafe is at fault for not monitoring the flow of tables, and for selling food to customers when there is nowhere for them to sit.

I thought I was in the majority who think it's incredibly rude to go and sit at a table when there's people ahead in the queue who would then not have a table free.

Same. A lot of cafes have signs up asking people not to sit at a table until they've ordered.

Hmm. I have done both (ordered first and sat down first) but I tend to order first because I think that if there's a long queue, tables will become free by the time you get to actually pay. I wouldn't have any issue giving up or sharing a table I was saving for people who'd already got their food and drinks though, especially if they had kids. That's just good manners, surely?

Then surely that logic works on an adult too who has disabilities where they need to sit? Surely they should then ensure they eat somewhere with table service or plenty of vacant tables so it doesn't mean they are taking up tables where people who have already been served can sit? Like I said it's 6 of 1 and half dozen of the other.

I go to one cafe where there is a sign at the entrance saying to find a table and place a reserved sign on it before ordering. In my experience the social (and polite) norm is to be served first - especially if it is busy and the queue is long. I remember years ago when I was out with DD in her pram I stopped for a coffee and sandwich and a member of staff took my tray to find me a seat - she told a woman sitting at a table that she had to move as customers who had actually purchased their food had priority!

Me family of four were at a cafe at a tourist spot a couple of days ago... it was busy but there was a regular turnover of tables and a queue of about ten minutes. We got our two trays of food and drinks only to find that four of the tables either had solitary food less people at them or a pile of bags on them. We asked a man sitting on his own at a table for six (with one other chair taken by a coat, a hat on another and a bag on another) if we could share his table but no he was waiting for his family. A lovely couple of ladies on a table for three said they had finished their food and were happy to stand to finish their drinks so we could eat our food before it got cold so we squeezed around the table with my DD perched on her dad’s knee (she is nearly 20 but small fortunately). Other people with trays of food were left trying to eat standing up with effectively unused tables being hogged by people who didn’t have their food.

By the time we finished the man on the table for six was still on his own and had no food or drink but that’s okay because his “family” (wife and grandchild) arrived to join him as we left.....

I think it's sensible to get a seat before you get food. But the woman sitting down at the table should have offered to share the table with the woman with the children.

Why though party? The reason I don’t leave ds is because he can’t be left. If an adult is safe to be left alone then no reason for them not to be.

Like I said I wouldn’t stand in a queue for food for 15 minutes unless I knew I had somewhere to sit!

Woman 2’s seating issues are not woman 1’s, but it would have been nice for woman 1 to offer up the free places and get an extra chair in for her dh when he arrived. Woman 1 is selfish for holding up a table for 4 when she only needs 2 places; however woman 2 is unreasonable in the way she spoke to woman 1. Maybe woman 2 asked none too politely/in an entitled fashion in the first place so woman 1 took exception to it. Seeing as woman 2 went on to be belligerent maybe that was what happened, but you only caught the ensuing argument.

I think the woman was fine to reserve the table for the simple reason that no one would have dared ask a man to free up a table he was sat at.

It's always women that are expected to move and accommodate, even by other women.

Woman 2 should have sat down at the table too.

Lacucuracha I assure you, the persons gender would have made absolutely no difference to my previous response.

The point was if the woman had disabilities which meant she couldn't stand long enough to queue, she could have asked for a vacant chair to sit on by another table instead of hogging a table of 4 for 15 minutes.

It was a cafe with a fairly quick turnaround of customers in most cases, hence why by the time her husband was served there there were empty tables. For all we know woman 2 may have asked if she could use her empty chairs but we will never know 🤷🏼‍♀️

In most places it's rude to take a table before you've ordered.

1. Woman 2's group was clearly in front of Woman 1's group in the queue.

1. By taking up a table while her husband queued, Woman 2 was occupying the table for 10-15 minutes longer than she actually needed it. This means people use a table for, say, 45 mins rather than 30, thus meaning more tables are needed. Woman 1 was actively contributing to the problem of the cafe being short on space.

Obviously, mobility issues are an exception to this.

I wouldn't go in a busy cafe/coffee shop and buy my food and drink before reserving a table. I am disabled and use walking sticks,so the thought of standing there with a tray of food and drink and nowhere to sit would be a problem for me. I put my bag or coat on the chair and prop one of my walking sticks against where I am going to sit,and I've never had anyone challenge me over it. Likewise,I wouldn't challenge anyone else who had done this.

With all due respect long I think standing there with a tray of hot food and drink with nowhere to sit would pose a problem for most people, including people on their own, people with small babies/toddlers etc. It's people hogging seats before they need them which is creating the shortage and problems.

We go to a couple of chain coffee shops regularly. I park the pushchair at a table and go and order. If I order everything with the pushchair with me, I can't actually carry everything and push him anyway. Presumably I should order with him, leave him hanging around the drinks area blocking the way whilst I walk around looking for a table then retrieve DS?

Today at hospital cafe it was busy / small so I made sure we used only part of the round table and offered the other chairs to the first people who were looking for a seat so imo woman 1 should have said I'm waiting for DH but those two are free if you can find a spare chair

I wouldn't go somewhere busy when I am on my own with ds.

With all due respect long I think standing there with a tray of hot food and drink with nowhere to sit would pose a problem for most people, including people on their own, people with small babies/toddlers etc. It's people hogging seats before they need them which is creating the shortage and problems.

You really can't see why it would be more difficult for someone disabled to carry their bag, coat, walking stick AND a tray of food and hot drink?!

OP, time to admit you were woman 2.

Sorry op but she chose to have kids she chose to go to a busy cafe thats not the first womans issue. Having kids does not give you automatic rights to a table someone else has already saved. It doesnt matter how many chairs were at the table she could have politely asked to share. All the tables in the cafe probably were 4 seaters. Normal people get a seat first otherwise theres no point in ordering.

I've been in McDonald's in the past with little children (as in pushchair/toddler age) and eaten standing up because of twats taking up tables for people queuing. I imagine the turnaround of customers in McDonald's is pretty quick so no need to hog tables. We've eaten standing up before and watched as twats hog tables and actually left before said twats get their food (when it's very busy.)

People can be very much pull the ladder up jack in some cases when it's unnecessary..

Was it Marks and Spencer? I won't go there anymore because their cafes are terrible for this.

And their coffee is shite.

Id be classed as a cf then.
I can’t stand in queues as im disabled ( dont look it).
Should i let everyone have my table then?

Martha I don't think the kids were the issue here. It was the fact a party of 3 had food and a party of 1 had no food and husband in queue so surely party of 3 should have said table.

Unfortunately no I'm not woman 2