In thinking DH's attitude is absolutely ridiculous? I'm seething!

[justkeeponsmiling]

For reference, we have 3 DC: DD (17), DD (12) ), DS (8). DH and I got together when eldest DD was 18 months old, he treats her like his own and her biological father is not on the scene these days (her choice, he was being a total cunt and she cut contact last year).

Eldest DD will be 18 in a couple of months. She has always been quite nerdy and generally a "good girl", always very responsible, never really going out on the piss, only ever had one boyfriend last year and too my knowledge hasn't even had sex yet - though I realise I might be wrong on this front. So we've never really experienced most of the trials and tribulations that most parents of teenagers experience.

So a couple of days ago DD asks if she can go to her (male) friend's house in the afternoon, after work. She has met this lad through a mutual friend last summer and met him a few times, never been to his place. Not that it makes much of a difference I suppose, but he is 18 and still lives at home. She informs me she will be taking public transport home and get home around 9pm. Of course, no problem. She then asks I'd she would be allowed to have a few drinks at this lads house. I say yes, sure but don't get drunk (last year, one one of the extremely rare occasions DD went for a night out she got extremely drunk and was very lucky she didn't die, due to engaging in some pretty stupid behaviour. It was awful and she knows I still get a bit twitchy when she mentions having a drink, hence her asking if I would mind). So as not to dripfeed, DD was diagnosed with depression last year, mostly brought on by her biological father's cuntish behaviour, and has had a course of ADs and counselling. She dropped out of school and lost a lot of friends at the time. She is much better now and to be honest I'm fucking delighted she is making new friends and going out socialising again!

So as promised, DD came home an out 9:30 last night, obviously quite tipsy. I made her some food, we sat down together while she was eating and she told me she had a fab time - this lad had another mate round who DD knew from school and together they had a few alcopops and played xbox. DH overhears this conversation and halfway through gets up from watching TV and stops upstairs to the bedroom without a word, where he stayed until all DD had gone to bed. When he eventually reappeared I asked him what the matter was as I could tell something was up.

Apparently "he didn't like what he was hearing", so to avoid an argument he thought he would go upstairs. Turns out DH thought it was not ok that DD was in the house with two lads drinking alcohol. He kept asking me if I was ok with it - umm yes?! It was the afternoon, she informed me of her plans, checked if she was allowed a few drinks, didn't get legless and came home as she had promised. I really fail to see the problem! But no - apparently DH, who used to get pissed and take drugs in his mother's shed with his mates from the age of 15 feels it's wrong for a girl to be in the hose with two lads drinking. At very nearly 18 years of age. I was absolutely gobsmacked. I feel that given his own youth he clearly has horrendous double standards, and it makes me really angry that in his head he is turning an afternoon of fun into something seedy and inappropriate. I wasn't even able to discuss this with him - apparently I can't criticise his view because "that is his opinion", and what is he possibly meant to do if this is how he feels?!
I suddenly feel like I am married to some matron from the dark ages and I now absolutely dread our middle DD starting to go out and be a teenager in a few years. His attitude makes me so angry and his complete refusal to discuss the matter is IMO just ridiculous. AIBU to really struggle to get past this? I have no idea how to deal with his attitude!

He’s typical. ‘It was different then’ ... ‘well it didn’t matter when I was young ... ‘men can look after themselves’.
His daughter is (truthfully) never S safe as his son. This means that his daughter never is as an autonomous human as a son.

Irritating

Yes Lemony. It's sexist and it pissed me off! And he is absolutely adamant he won't discuss it.

What Lemony said.

His problem is the way he used to think at that age. He’s remembering it and transferring those thoughts and attitudes onto two boys he doesn’t know. Unless you talk about it, he may not see your point and you won’t see him differently, but until you do, he’s going to be exactly the same with your 12yo DD.

So is this the first sign of Victorian dad or has he shown tendencies before?

He has shown tendencies before now, when DD had a boyfriend. It was an extremely stressful time because he was totally unable to deal with the situation and behaved like a moody twat at times. I tried to challenge him then and got nowhere due to his refusal to discuss any aspect of it. The relationship only lasted a few weeks though, which is why we never had to properly deal with his attitude.

Hmm... maybe i’m also a matron from the Dark Ages but I actually don’t think it’s a great idea for a girl to go round to a lad’s house drinking with his friend on her own. Either get her to bring other friends along or go to just play Xbox and hang out, not to drink. The drinking in the afternoon thing is just off. Especially with her previous experience of almost dying from alcohol poisoning.

You have to have some sense about these things. Your DH is probably antsy about it because he knows himself as a former teenage boy that teenage boys rarely want to hang out and drink with girls for non-sexual reasons unless they’ve been friends for a long time, grew up together, kind of thing.

You should give your DH some credit for loving your DD enough that he was concerned about it. It shows he cares about her and that’s a good thing.

I studied a typically male subject at A-level and was the only girl in a class of boys. When they went to the pub or hung out they always included me and were respectful. So I'd have no problem with DD hanging out with a couple of male friends, as long as her friends were decent guys and she could be trusted to handle herself. Perhaps the bigger issue here is that your DD has behaved badly in the past and your DH doesn't think she can be trusted?

Your DH would have hated me. At 16 I went to a school where 1 -2 per cent of the pupils were girls. All my friends were boys! But I didn't drink, didn't have sex until 19. Really I was the easiest, super well behaved teenager. My parents supported me to know my own mind. He shouldn't project his own teenage experiences into his child. And you should just encourage dd to trust her instincts with men. If it feels wrong to get out. But at 17 she needs to learn to use those instincts herself, not be locked down or she will learn in potentially even riskier environments (uni, clubs etc).

To clarify, DD didn't nearly die from alcohol poisoning, she got drunk at a party with a friend, one of the very few occasions she had drunk alcohol up until that point. They decided to go for a walk during a horrendous storm and without a coat. We live very rurally and they got lost on top of the mountain between the friend's village and ours for a couple of hours. Luckily, her friend (also a lad) sobered up enough to find his way and carry a hypothermic DD back down.
WRT DH not trusting her because of this - that is absolutely not it. He was very clear about the fact that as a girl she should not be alone with a couple of guys, nothing to do with previous behaviour.
The thing is, I used to be friends with loads of lads at that age. We used to hang out at each other's houses, they would drive me home after work, etc. It was never a big deal.
As far as I am concerned, DD could be living on her own by now, or certainly in a couple of months, and do whatever she pleases. I am proud to have brought her up to trust me and tell me where she is and what she gets up to (mostly, anyway). I have always tried to teach her to trust her instinct, to say no to anything she is not comfortable with and to have confidence in herself. I absolutely do not see how I can tell her she is not allowed to go to a friend's house to hang out and I am of the opinion that if she wanted to drink alcohol she would do so regardless of what I tell her - just like I did at her age! As I said, I am just glad she trusts me enough to tell me about it/ask if she was allowed.

What's he done wrong?

He's perfectly entitled to his opinions and he didn't try to force them on you or your daughter; he quietly left.

The poor man can't win.

As for him somehow not being allowed an opinion because of things he did as a teenager; nonsense! Learning from your mistakes and hoping your children don't make the same ones is natural and expected.

What he's done wrong is have to have sexist and outdated opinions. And let's not kid ourselves that he did not try to impose them on his DD. The OP said that her DH was difficult to live with when their DH had a boyfriend previously and that he sulked in his room this time. The DD will be perfectly aware of his disapproval.

Your DH needs a stern talking to. Just because he has a feeling doesn't mean it's justifiable to act because of it. People have inappropriate, anxieties, fear and prejudices. They should fight to change them and, at the very least, they should not let them affect how they judge others and how they behave. If I had a prejudice against people of another race, would it be OK if I sulked and stomped off when my DCs came into contact with people of another race? Would it be OK if I thought my DCs were unclean now and was disappointed in them? Of course not. The same applies to being sexist, to thinking that all boys/men are after sex, that all girls/women do not want sex, that being associated with sex as a girl makes you fast, loose, slutty, and similar.

I'm torn on this one.
I think he's projecting massively, knowing how he/his mates behaved at that age (which doesn't do him much credit but at least he's different now!) and so he's assuming that all teen boys will be the same as he and his mates, and he's scared for your DD that she'll end up in a situation she won't be able to handle.

Ask him if he'd have felt the same if it was just one boy - bet he wouldn't.

I don't think he's exactly wrong to be worried about your DD's safety - but he needs to find better ways to express himself and deal with his own issues.

So he didn’t agree with someone but rather than creating a scene he took himself away and spoke to you later. I don’t see how that is wrong.

I also don’t see how given that she is from what you describe yourself pretty vulnerable for a 17 year old and has been shown to not necessarily have brilliant judgement after a drink that he is wrong to be concerned. I think, especially wigh her history, that is a normal feeling really.

If he had kicked off and caused a scene I could understand you being seething but this is basically just his care for her being from a different angle to yours.

I am also struggling to see what your DH has done wrong. He removed himself from the situation, didn’t impose his views on DD and told only you of his opinion. Is he not entitled to have one?

How is he being hypocritical in terms of his youth? It is natural to want to protect our children and prevent them from making the same mistakes we once made.

I don't think he's done anything wrong, he's entitled to his opinions as are you, but he didn't force them on your daughter, he left the room.

Is he not allowed to have his own personal opinion on how he sees things?

Also, some things I did in my youth I would much prefer my children didn't do, it's not hypocritical, it's me looking back and realising that it probably wasn't one of my best ideas.

Following your logic your husband should be supplying drugs in the shed as it's what he did?

Let her get on with it. You DH needs to butt out. If she has freedom to make her own choices and is treated like a responsible adult, her confidence in herself will grow and it may have a positive impact on her depression. I left home at 17 to go to Uni as a nerdy girl. I went drinking with the boys, never got into a situation I couldn't handle, had flings, made life long friendships and had a lot of good times. Give her the freedom and space to grow and come out her shell and she will thrive. I know I did.

Again just to clarify: DD is perfectly aware that he disapprovedid, he didn't quietly remove himself, he marched out clearly sulking and carried on sulking all night and the next day. This is his way sadly - he doesn't address an issue he just sulks and is in a mood and brings the mood of the whole house down.

And I totally agree with pp's who said that of course he is entitled to his opinion! But the fact he refuses to listen to my arguments and is open to discuss how we deal with the situation is IMO wrong.
Also: DH wasn't actually a "bad" teenager in the sense that he was promiscuous, he just spent a lot of his time drinking (with boys and girls) and doing drugs. I have no idea if his friends were different though.

Either you parent together and find a compromise or you do it your way and ignore his opinions.

I think your DH sounds very sensible. A young girl drinking with two lads in a house she hasn't been to before is asking for trouble whether you think it's sexist or not, it's a fact that more women get attacked than men. Sometimes there is a difference between the sexes but it doesn't mean one sex is better than the other.

We are equal yet different

DH was absolutely dreadful when DD had her boyfriend. I wasn't too happy with her choice either - he was an unemployed school drop-out living on his own on the dole playing on his xbox all day. It was so difficult because DH used to refuse to discuss anything to do with him and instead went into a moody sulk at the mention of his name. So I used to have to make all the decisions about what boundaries to set for DD and I had nobody to act as a sounding board. I found it really tough. In the end I broke down and begged DH to please please get over himself and help me deal with the situation instead of silently disapproving of all my decisions WRT DD and her BF. He got a bit better after that and shortly after DD mercifully dumped the BF so we could all forget about the whole affair.
I think part of my issue is that this situation has brought back memories of that time and I am now absolutely dreading the future WRT our younger DD.

I think she does sound like a vulnerable young woman. She's obviously been very upset by her biological father's behaviour and presumably is still grieving for him. In the meantime she's trying to overcome her shyness and act as she sees other girls acting, by hanging out with boys.

I think there is a difference between boys who are genuine friends - and those who are just vague acquaintances/friends of friends. The people who she was with seem to be more like acquaintances.

You also seem quite keen for your daughter to grow up and start having 'real' boyfriends who she has sex with.

It seems to me that she sounds like an unhappy young woman. You've not said if she has any close female friends. But it seems quite likely that - given it seems that you feel as is if it's time for her to behave in an adult way, and give that she probably misses her Dad, and given that she obviously doesn't handle alcohol well - that she is likely to have sex soon. Probably with somebody who doesn't care about her.

Gordon Bennett she’s nearly 18 - poor kid - he’s being ludicrous. However, I would imagine that he struggling with his own issues here - seeing your DD grow up, remembering the fun he had in the garden shed at a similar age, young men showing an interest in her. That’s why he removed himself - because deep down he knows he’s being ridiculous but he couldn’t overcome his emotions at that point. The struggle between what was going on for him internally (which was irrational) versus not appearing faintly ridiculous to you and your DD if he said anything.

It’s a shame he had to make his disapproval so obvious to her but I’d cut him some slack and let it go. I would also explain to your DD that he’s struggling a bit with her growing up and reiterate she’s done absolutely nothing wrong because she absolutely hasn’t.