In thinking DH's attitude is absolutely ridiculous? I'm seething!

[justkeeponsmiling]

For reference, we have 3 DC: DD (17), DD (12) ), DS (8). DH and I got together when eldest DD was 18 months old, he treats her like his own and her biological father is not on the scene these days (her choice, he was being a total cunt and she cut contact last year).

Eldest DD will be 18 in a couple of months. She has always been quite nerdy and generally a "good girl", always very responsible, never really going out on the piss, only ever had one boyfriend last year and too my knowledge hasn't even had sex yet - though I realise I might be wrong on this front. So we've never really experienced most of the trials and tribulations that most parents of teenagers experience.

So a couple of days ago DD asks if she can go to her (male) friend's house in the afternoon, after work. She has met this lad through a mutual friend last summer and met him a few times, never been to his place. Not that it makes much of a difference I suppose, but he is 18 and still lives at home. She informs me she will be taking public transport home and get home around 9pm. Of course, no problem. She then asks I'd she would be allowed to have a few drinks at this lads house. I say yes, sure but don't get drunk (last year, one one of the extremely rare occasions DD went for a night out she got extremely drunk and was very lucky she didn't die, due to engaging in some pretty stupid behaviour. It was awful and she knows I still get a bit twitchy when she mentions having a drink, hence her asking if I would mind). So as not to dripfeed, DD was diagnosed with depression last year, mostly brought on by her biological father's cuntish behaviour, and has had a course of ADs and counselling. She dropped out of school and lost a lot of friends at the time. She is much better now and to be honest I'm fucking delighted she is making new friends and going out socialising again!

So as promised, DD came home an out 9:30 last night, obviously quite tipsy. I made her some food, we sat down together while she was eating and she told me she had a fab time - this lad had another mate round who DD knew from school and together they had a few alcopops and played xbox. DH overhears this conversation and halfway through gets up from watching TV and stops upstairs to the bedroom without a word, where he stayed until all DD had gone to bed. When he eventually reappeared I asked him what the matter was as I could tell something was up.

Apparently "he didn't like what he was hearing", so to avoid an argument he thought he would go upstairs. Turns out DH thought it was not ok that DD was in the house with two lads drinking alcohol. He kept asking me if I was ok with it - umm yes?! It was the afternoon, she informed me of her plans, checked if she was allowed a few drinks, didn't get legless and came home as she had promised. I really fail to see the problem! But no - apparently DH, who used to get pissed and take drugs in his mother's shed with his mates from the age of 15 feels it's wrong for a girl to be in the hose with two lads drinking. At very nearly 18 years of age. I was absolutely gobsmacked. I feel that given his own youth he clearly has horrendous double standards, and it makes me really angry that in his head he is turning an afternoon of fun into something seedy and inappropriate. I wasn't even able to discuss this with him - apparently I can't criticise his view because "that is his opinion", and what is he possibly meant to do if this is how he feels?!
I suddenly feel like I am married to some matron from the dark ages and I now absolutely dread our middle DD starting to go out and be a teenager in a few years. His attitude makes me so angry and his complete refusal to discuss the matter is IMO just ridiculous. AIBU to really struggle to get past this? I have no idea how to deal with his attitude!

Would it dungeon?

You can disapprove of something without it being a huge row.

snowyqueen I agree, sadly. My mum warned me not to get so drunk I wasn’t in control and make sure I could get home safely. There was an element of “men can’t control themselves” and it’s clearly not all men. But some men. That will never change

I don't think the issue is so much with what you/he would allow your DD to do or not to do. I think it's wonderful that you both care about her so much. But you're right that you should be able to discuss it.

It sounds like from your post that you'd rather he not show how annoyed/upset he was in front of your daughter; if that's true, tell him so, and also say that your differences are something you want to talk about either with each other or with a counselor present.

You can disapprove of something without it being a huge row.

Even if it isn't a huge row, at 18 (which she will be in two months) it would probably just make her less likely to mention what they are doing in the future. At that age, I certainly didn't feel the need to discuss exactly what I was doing and who I was with. I also felt I could make my own judgements with regard to whether the boys I knew could be trusted.

I suppose that for me the communication and the maturity has to be a two way thing.

So yes, an adult woman might decide that she wanted to do some day time drinking with people she barely knows. (Interestingly most adult women on this thread say they would not choose to this.) However, in the event of things turning out less than well, they'd confide in a) their friends and b) if things went very badly wrong, they'd access professional support. They'd go back to their own home and in the event of this being a shared flat, their flatmates would have something to say if they came in drunk and woke everybody up.

A 17 year old coming back drunk impacts on her mother, stepfather and siblings. Nobody has really mentioned the younger kids, but an older sister/half-sister is a kind of role model. The (step)father may not be terribly keen on the idea that his children grow up to think daytime drinking is normal. And in the event of this 'friendship' going wrong at any point, it is undoubtedly the family that will be expected to pick up the pieces.

I think there is nothing wrong with indicating to older children that you expect them to behave responsibly and take care of their personal safety, because you care about them. Yes, there will be occasions when they want to let their hair down a bit - but ideally this in the company of good friends not with people you barely know.

I suppose it depends on your definition of "drunk" and whether she was drinking with strangers. OP clearly doesn't think she was drunk and the fact that she came home at the requested time (quite early) and chatted about her day backs this up. Whether or not these boys were virtual strangers is not clear- I would say they weren't considering the DD had known one boy for over a year, had met up with him a few times and had a mutual friend. She's known the other boy from school so maybe had known him for five or six years. They were also in the first boy's parents house and quite possibly they were there in the evening.

My stepson went through a difficult time at university - his mental health was not good at that point, I suspect. He was living with us at that time during the holidays.

I found it worrying trying to balance my responsibilities towards him and toward my daughter, who was then 11 years old. He was getting up late in the afternoon, and smelled strongly of cannabis and tobacco. His clothing was often smelly. On the one hand, I knew that he was going through a difficult time and was too old to be told what to do. I also did not want to model the idea that you reject people just because their behaviour was difficult. But I felt the choices he was making were ones that were not acceptable, and it was a particularly hard time in terms of balancing responsibilities towards my stepson and my daughter. Fortunately my husband and I were able to talk about it. In the end my stepson left, and went to stay with his mother.

Personally if my daughter had got legless and behaved so rashly she nearly died I wouldn’t want the next time she drank to be alone with two boys. I would have encouraged her to drink at home at meal times occasionally to get used to her limits before letting her lose drinking.

I think it must be difficult for this girl’s SD as girls take a lot of cues for their future relationships from their Dad and this real girl’s dad has treated her like shit. I wonder if the stepdad feels like he has to overcompensate to give her a feeling of her self worth? Her last boyfriend sounds like she might be in danger of recreating her relationship pattern with her real Dad in future relationships so I would be a bit worried.

She's 17. She can go out and get a mortgage in 2 months, vote, drink until she bleeds vodka and do generally whatever she wants.

I'd ultimately be querying why you're both still babying a 17yr old instead of just letting her get on with it.

If my son asked for permission to go to a friends house or to drink at 17 I'd be wondering where the hell I'd gone wrong that he had such little autonomy or ability to make sound judgements.

Also that behaviour from a father figure is creepy as fuck. Even if he tried to avoid showing it.

Great. Next February I'll tell ds he's on his own and to go and get a mortgage. Sure that won't be a problem- he should be able to find a job to pay for it when he's not at school.

And his father is definitely creepy as fuck-he asked him where he was spending the night last night and warned him about drinking too much

She's 17. She can go out and get a mortgage in 2 months

No, she can't.

I'll be watching out for my kids till the day I die. I will worry about them, sometimes irrationally but instinctively. I will probably offer advice when it's not needed. I'm a dad.

The way your DH reacted wasn't very mature but I think he was right to be concerned.
Your DD has been depressed and has also had a bad time with alcohol before. He's worried about her.
It's a pity you can't all talk about how you feel and why.

And I have boys and they’ll definitely be warned about not getting into states alone with girls where they would be incapable of making sure both of them were able to properly ensure anything that followed had full competent consent. It can mean years in prison if they don’t. So it isn’t just girls.

*She's 17. She can go out and get a mortgage in 2 months, vote, drink until she bleeds vodka and do generally whatever she wants.

I'd ultimately be querying why you're both still babying a 17yr old instead of just letting her get on with it.

If my son asked for permission to go to a friends house or to drink at 17 I'd be wondering where the hell I'd gone wrong that he had such little autonomy or ability to make sound judgements.

Also that behaviour from a father figure is creepy as fuck. Even if he tried to avoid showing it.*

In England, you have a legal responsibility for your CHILDREN until the age of 18 (not 16). That means having a clue where they are, and what they are doing, let alone a moral duty.

If my son asked for permission to go to a friends house or to drink at 17 I'd be wondering where the hell I'd gone wrong that he had such little autonomy or ability to make sound judgements

How ridiculous.

@Mercison if you think it's 'normal' for someone who's 2 months away from being 18 to still ask their parent's permission to go and hang out somewhere then I seriously feel sorry for your children.

@Mercison if you think it's 'normal' for someone who's 2 months away from being 18 to still ask their parent's permission to go and hang out somewhere then I seriously feel sorry for your children.

That wasn't the debate.
It was a girl drinking alcohol most of the afternoon with boys. A girl who'd suffered from depression and had previous bad experience with alcohol.
If you'd bothered to read the full detail, you'd have understood that, and the also understood the reasons why any parent should have a clue about where their kids are, and what they are doing. Not having a clue isn't liberating them, it's liberating yourself of your parental and legal responsibilities.
In this case, her daughter wasn't seeking permission as such, she was informing her mother, and did the right thing, but the father had concerns about the situation, also justifiable, but the manner in which he expressed concern could have been better handled.

We aren't talking about tracking every movement of our kids, but at least having a clue if they're going to friends, or going out drinking etc is important.

Go ahead! Not in the slightest bit bothered. I realise not everyone has such good communication and relationships with their teens.

We aren't talking about tracking every movement of our kids, but at least having a clue if they're going to friends, or going out drinking etc is important
But.... the Mum had every idea where her DD was. She'd asked her if it would be OK to go. She'd asked her if it would be OK to have a couple of drinks. She'd told her what time she'd be home and she got home before then.

Why are you saying she drank 'most of the afternoon'? You don't know that, you aren't the OP, she hasn't said that.

My DD had if you like to call it... a bad experience with alcohol at 17. She'd had too much at a party, I held her hair back as she was sick in the toilet. She learnt from that because I talked to her about alcohol levels, what to eat before she drank, drinking water between drinks blah blah... how can these kids learn if we don't let go just a bit before they're 18?

If you can't see that there's a differeence between relaxing the apron strings and encouraging your dd to go and get pissed with a bunch of randomers then I feel sorry for you.

Why are you saying she drank 'most of the afternoon'? You don't know that, you aren't the OP, she hasn't said that.

She arrived home tipsy, one can draw a reasonable conclusion from that, that she'd have had at say 4 units in her bloodstream. Losing 1 unit per hour, she either drank 4 just before arriving home, or she'd between 6 to 8 across the afternoon. It's not a 'lot', which is why I didn't say drunk, but regardless, going to a friends for the afternoon and having some drinks and being asked not to get drunk does tend to suggest it wasn't going to be just one or two. All of that isn't really important, the important part is that parents know what their kids are upto and where they are (within reason). That was my point. I am defending that that is the RIGHT situation to be in as a parent, not the wrong one!

My response was to the lady who argued it was wrong to know this, and that her daughter shouldn't have to keep her informed.

No need to feel sorry for me Mercison ! What a strange thing to say, there are those on MN in general who need sympathy, not me... I somehow managed to steer through the teen years with 3 now successful adults. Not easy at all times but got there unscathed.

The two guys weren't randomers, one lad she knows, the other she'd met a few times through first lad but that won't fit the agenda will it...

For someone who isn't used to drinking, two units are enough to get tipsy. I write from personal experience!

The late Clare Rayner gave this rather wise advice. 'It's hard to parent a teenager, all you can do is try to keep them safe until they are old enough and wise enough to keep themselves safe.

I'm not sure the OP's daughter is quite there yet.