In thinking DH's attitude is absolutely ridiculous? I'm seething!

[justkeeponsmiling]

For reference, we have 3 DC: DD (17), DD (12) ), DS (8). DH and I got together when eldest DD was 18 months old, he treats her like his own and her biological father is not on the scene these days (her choice, he was being a total cunt and she cut contact last year).

Eldest DD will be 18 in a couple of months. She has always been quite nerdy and generally a "good girl", always very responsible, never really going out on the piss, only ever had one boyfriend last year and too my knowledge hasn't even had sex yet - though I realise I might be wrong on this front. So we've never really experienced most of the trials and tribulations that most parents of teenagers experience.

So a couple of days ago DD asks if she can go to her (male) friend's house in the afternoon, after work. She has met this lad through a mutual friend last summer and met him a few times, never been to his place. Not that it makes much of a difference I suppose, but he is 18 and still lives at home. She informs me she will be taking public transport home and get home around 9pm. Of course, no problem. She then asks I'd she would be allowed to have a few drinks at this lads house. I say yes, sure but don't get drunk (last year, one one of the extremely rare occasions DD went for a night out she got extremely drunk and was very lucky she didn't die, due to engaging in some pretty stupid behaviour. It was awful and she knows I still get a bit twitchy when she mentions having a drink, hence her asking if I would mind). So as not to dripfeed, DD was diagnosed with depression last year, mostly brought on by her biological father's cuntish behaviour, and has had a course of ADs and counselling. She dropped out of school and lost a lot of friends at the time. She is much better now and to be honest I'm fucking delighted she is making new friends and going out socialising again!

So as promised, DD came home an out 9:30 last night, obviously quite tipsy. I made her some food, we sat down together while she was eating and she told me she had a fab time - this lad had another mate round who DD knew from school and together they had a few alcopops and played xbox. DH overhears this conversation and halfway through gets up from watching TV and stops upstairs to the bedroom without a word, where he stayed until all DD had gone to bed. When he eventually reappeared I asked him what the matter was as I could tell something was up.

Apparently "he didn't like what he was hearing", so to avoid an argument he thought he would go upstairs. Turns out DH thought it was not ok that DD was in the house with two lads drinking alcohol. He kept asking me if I was ok with it - umm yes?! It was the afternoon, she informed me of her plans, checked if she was allowed a few drinks, didn't get legless and came home as she had promised. I really fail to see the problem! But no - apparently DH, who used to get pissed and take drugs in his mother's shed with his mates from the age of 15 feels it's wrong for a girl to be in the hose with two lads drinking. At very nearly 18 years of age. I was absolutely gobsmacked. I feel that given his own youth he clearly has horrendous double standards, and it makes me really angry that in his head he is turning an afternoon of fun into something seedy and inappropriate. I wasn't even able to discuss this with him - apparently I can't criticise his view because "that is his opinion", and what is he possibly meant to do if this is how he feels?!
I suddenly feel like I am married to some matron from the dark ages and I now absolutely dread our middle DD starting to go out and be a teenager in a few years. His attitude makes me so angry and his complete refusal to discuss the matter is IMO just ridiculous. AIBU to really struggle to get past this? I have no idea how to deal with his attitude!

Nothing wrong with being twitchy but at nearly 18 you have to let go and trust that you've brought them up with the ability to make the right decisions.
The op needs to help him understand he can voice his concerns to his dd and together they can talk about situations and what may go wrong, but at the end of the day he can't lead her life for her or control her actions. He can only advise.
Op you seem to have grasped this and have a good relationship with her and it sounds as if you are able to talk to each other so she can make sensible choices. Now you have to help your dp to learn how to communicate more effectively.

Actually a drunken friend did try to rape me when I was 19’(& I put myself in a stupid position & put myself in quite a lot of risk escaping from the situation) - but I don’t think that being carefully monitored at age 17/18 would have helped at all tbh.

I don't agree that parents need to stop being concerned/having an input once their DC reach 18. Yes, you no longer have the right to dictate or lay down the law, and they have a right to privacy and make their own decisions etc free from interference. But that doesn't mean you wouldn't offer advice if you were concerned.
When I was 19, my DM offered me advice that changed the course of a decision I was about to make - looking back I really feel that I dodged a bullet, and there was a (small but nevertheless present) risk in the alternative that I didn't feel able to turn down at the time. She also intervened when my then 18/19yo Dsis started to self destruct in a bad way. If she had taken the stance of "they're 18, none of my business" I dread to think how differently things could have turned out.

FWIW, I can see where OP's DH is coming from. IMO it's not sexist/chauvinistic/old-fashioned, or painting all males as sex offenders. The sad reality is that there are risks for women that men don't face as frequently.

However your DH sulking like a 5 year old is not the way to go about things. It makes dealing with any potential issues more difficult, pushes your DD away and brings the mood of everyone down while he expresses himself like a child. It's his behaviour that needs to be changed, rather than his opinions. Is it possible that it's partly because DD is his step-daughter that he's doing this, do you think? (Ie he doesn't feel able to have an input that contradicts yours as her biological parent, so is behaving like this rather than speaking directly?) Of course, there's no excuse for such poor behaviour, but it may give you a starting point to work with if that's the case.
Hopefully he'll be open to discussion, and you'll be able to find a sensible way of dealing with matters going forward. It does seem as though he had started to come around last time, with DD's boyfriend.

I think it’s appropriate to discuss risks. Yes you should be able to spend time alone mildly tipsy with two male acquaintances without being raped but we know that sometimes it will end badly and knowing that it should have been ok doesn’t help. Its like any situation when children are becoming more independent. A 12 year old should be able to safely walk to school, but we also teach them the risks and why you don’t stop to talk to strangers or go off to help an acquaintance ‘look for their lost puppy’. Equally a 19 year old should be able to spend their taxi money on chips and catch the night bus home, but we teach them they should get a taxi to stay safe, or phone for a lift in an emergency. You have to equip them to make safe decisions themselves.

God, this place is all so black and white. It's either he's a cunt and the dd is right, or he's right. Where's the subtletly? She is totally fine to have friends, have a social life, have a drink, all of that. All good. But he's also perfectly fine and normal to be concerned about a vulnerable young daughter and worry about her putting herself in potentially risky situations.
There's room for both sides to be right.

I think that if you don't have close female friends who hang out with you and look out for you, you are more vulnerable.

I think it's particularly hard for parents whose teenagers suffer from problems like depression and anxiety. The tug that most parents feel between protectiveness and letting them go is much harder to resolve.

I find the situation that's being described quite hard to get my head round. On the one hand the young woman seems intensely dependent on a mother who 'spends an awful lot of...time delving into her mind and helping her face her problems.'

On the other hand that same parent seems to be encouraging her to have 'a few drinks' at a time when she isn't legally old enough to buy alcohol, is with people she doesn't know that well, has a dodgy history where alcohol is concerned and is dependent on public transport. I honestly don't think that was good advice.

I think you can sensibly advise young people that if they're going to have more than one drink to only do this in the company of trusted friends. And it's best for one person in the group to be a person who sticks to just one drink, so they can phone for taxis or other help etc.

I think it's reasonable to assume that alcohol will be consumed in the evening at parties, birthday celebrations - but there is absolutely no way that I would encourage day-time drinking with just one or two friends.

Obviously young people may opt to make other choices, but there's no need to encourage them along that particular path.

I wouldn’t love it either if I’m honest 🤷‍♀️

I don’t think he’s done anything wrong.

Actually pony you have a point. The ‘friend’ who attempted to rape me was an ex public schoolboy rugger bugger with an enormous sense of entitlement who’s probably never had female friends.

Hence my many conversations with Ds2 about consent. Ds3 will get the same when he’s older. And yep I would be having conversations about how to avoid those situations.

But they still have to be trusted to take risks. Not dictated to.

Absolute yes it did hit a nerve because it's what's rolled out time after time on threads when posters are trying to be reasonable and give their point of view.

@GnotherGnu No, I would have reacted like that but I don't think that is the core issue here. There is a clear difference of opinion about what each of this couple thinks is safe behaviour for their dd.

Passive aggressive reactions can be worked through, a fundamental difference in what is acceptable and what is too risky is far harder to deal with.

I am probably more with your DH point of view that yours to be honest. The sulking - no, but the viewpoint yes. I think your DD ended up in a vulnerable situation and I dont think that is sensible.

A pp made the point that he is reacting like this because he cares for her very much. I agree with that comment. He is concerned but has tried not to interfere.

When my DD was 17, she was outgoing, liked a drink and had gone on holiday with a group of boys from college, all good friends.

She wouldn't have done what your DD did though OP, she would have been very wary. Your DD does sound vulnerable and I'm not surprised your DH was concerned, his behaviour sounds like that of someone who is aware his opinions about his SD don't count for much.

I think your DH should be happy that your DD is talking about where she is and what she's doing. When I was her age I always lied about where I was and what I was doing

Better to safe than sorry..

Except on here, of course.

I can see why he was concerned but his reaction to his concern is not okay. He has form for sulking and refusing to engage with situations he disapproves of and doing so in a way that is noticeable to others.

In this situation I would have explained why I was concerned, discussed it and moved on. I would not have stormed upstairs and refused to come back down. The same with the previous boyfriend situation. We are supposed to equip our children with the ability to make sensible choices and part of that is keeping the lines of communication open. The way he behaved is hardly likely to do that. It is also difficult to parent when one of you is too busy storming about.

He is entitled to his views of course, but he needs to learn how to deal with situations where others do not share the same opinions.

He sounds like a typical overprotective dad? She's your eldest so it's all new to you both. As long as he will discuss and listen to your view too without being disrespectful or undermining, it should be okay.

I've just read about the sulking, I don't like that, no. Hopefully he can deal with his feelings towards his little girl growing up and be less arsy about it.

No it wasn't a good idea to go to virtual strangers house and get drunk. Your DH is quite right to disapprove. It happened and he disapproves and so would I. He behaved sensibly by walking out the room and leaving you to deal with it. You sound very naïve indeed for an adult.

I feel like this comes up fairly frequently - dads becoming sulky and petulant when their teenage daughters have boyfriends/spend time with boys.

Safe to say men do not have the monopoly on being concerned about the welfare of their children and how they navigate the passage into adulthood, so I’m afraid I feel uncomfortable with normalising these reactions.

Where are all the mums sulking about their boys spending time with girls? Stomping off cos they can’t even bear to hear a discussion about time spent with female friends? Not really happening, is it?

I think theres something quite uncomfortable underneath all this - it’s jealousy. That’s not to say these men could even identify that feeling themselves, or would ever pose a threat at all, but I think it’s there underpinning their reactions.

That’s honestly not an attack on men, I think there are some pretty fucked up ideas about how men should view their daughters/step daughters that just get absorbed into the collective psyche without anyone even noticing.

Your dh is just looking out for her. He hasn't berated her for the choices she has made, he's removed himself from the confrontation. He hasn't met these lads so he doesn't know they are fine any more than you know they are not. For what it's worth I think drinking in the day alone with two men is not the most sensible behaviour and I don't think I would do that at 40 let alone at 17.

5) Now his wife is saying that it's fine for her daughter/his stepdaughter to go and have a few drinks during the day with young men who she doesn't know at all well. And that it is not fine for him to have any kind of different opinion.

This is my read on it, too.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 'sulking' is actually him feeling as though he's done the heavy lifting all these years, only to be put in a box when he wants to exercise some parental authority over a young girl making some dubious choices.

This is one of those parallel universe threads. I don't have any friends IRL who would be OK with this arrangement.

DCITennison I think that lots of mothers are extremely possessive with their sons and are jealous of their DIL's, so I can't agree with you there.

I also think that lots of fathers are very protective about their daughters, not through jealousy, but because they love them.

I had VERY few female friends as a teenager, most of my friends were male and I frequently spent hours and hours in a mates house with random guys coming and going at all hours, sitting/sleeping on couches next to them, drinking, smoking and generally partying til 5am....

I would say the main difference is one of the guys was my brother, the rest were HIS friends and most of them were genuinely nice guys who'd batter anyone who came into the house we didn't know that well and looked at me wrong as I was 'one of the gang'... even if we were all smoking/drinking rockers.

I think you DO have to take each situation into account, you DO have to trust her judgement to some extent, yes she made previous mistakes, but giving her chances like this to prove she can be sensible is necessary.

You need to tell your DH that either he behaves like an adult and realises DD is nearly an adult and keeping her on board with talking to you about stuff, rather than hiding it to prevent his sulks is vital at this point, because in a couple of months she won't be obliged to tell either of you fuck all.

Jesus, DCITennison, I'm pretty sure it's not jealousy but rather the actuality of sex crimes against women and girls.