In thinking DH's attitude is absolutely ridiculous? I'm seething!

[justkeeponsmiling]

For reference, we have 3 DC: DD (17), DD (12) ), DS (8). DH and I got together when eldest DD was 18 months old, he treats her like his own and her biological father is not on the scene these days (her choice, he was being a total cunt and she cut contact last year).

Eldest DD will be 18 in a couple of months. She has always been quite nerdy and generally a "good girl", always very responsible, never really going out on the piss, only ever had one boyfriend last year and too my knowledge hasn't even had sex yet - though I realise I might be wrong on this front. So we've never really experienced most of the trials and tribulations that most parents of teenagers experience.

So a couple of days ago DD asks if she can go to her (male) friend's house in the afternoon, after work. She has met this lad through a mutual friend last summer and met him a few times, never been to his place. Not that it makes much of a difference I suppose, but he is 18 and still lives at home. She informs me she will be taking public transport home and get home around 9pm. Of course, no problem. She then asks I'd she would be allowed to have a few drinks at this lads house. I say yes, sure but don't get drunk (last year, one one of the extremely rare occasions DD went for a night out she got extremely drunk and was very lucky she didn't die, due to engaging in some pretty stupid behaviour. It was awful and she knows I still get a bit twitchy when she mentions having a drink, hence her asking if I would mind). So as not to dripfeed, DD was diagnosed with depression last year, mostly brought on by her biological father's cuntish behaviour, and has had a course of ADs and counselling. She dropped out of school and lost a lot of friends at the time. She is much better now and to be honest I'm fucking delighted she is making new friends and going out socialising again!

So as promised, DD came home an out 9:30 last night, obviously quite tipsy. I made her some food, we sat down together while she was eating and she told me she had a fab time - this lad had another mate round who DD knew from school and together they had a few alcopops and played xbox. DH overhears this conversation and halfway through gets up from watching TV and stops upstairs to the bedroom without a word, where he stayed until all DD had gone to bed. When he eventually reappeared I asked him what the matter was as I could tell something was up.

Apparently "he didn't like what he was hearing", so to avoid an argument he thought he would go upstairs. Turns out DH thought it was not ok that DD was in the house with two lads drinking alcohol. He kept asking me if I was ok with it - umm yes?! It was the afternoon, she informed me of her plans, checked if she was allowed a few drinks, didn't get legless and came home as she had promised. I really fail to see the problem! But no - apparently DH, who used to get pissed and take drugs in his mother's shed with his mates from the age of 15 feels it's wrong for a girl to be in the hose with two lads drinking. At very nearly 18 years of age. I was absolutely gobsmacked. I feel that given his own youth he clearly has horrendous double standards, and it makes me really angry that in his head he is turning an afternoon of fun into something seedy and inappropriate. I wasn't even able to discuss this with him - apparently I can't criticise his view because "that is his opinion", and what is he possibly meant to do if this is how he feels?!
I suddenly feel like I am married to some matron from the dark ages and I now absolutely dread our middle DD starting to go out and be a teenager in a few years. His attitude makes me so angry and his complete refusal to discuss the matter is IMO just ridiculous. AIBU to really struggle to get past this? I have no idea how to deal with his attitude!

Your husband's attitude is pretty shit & the way he refuses to discuss the matter is just churlish-he clearly thinks he knows best & that is that, must be ace to live with
I think you both need to keep in mind she is nearly 18, whilst she may have had a bad experience whilst pissed been there, done that she sounds overall like a sensible young woman. There are those who may think that her drinking alone with 2 males isn't a good idea but perhaps your daughter can be relied upon to look at them & judge the situation for herself.

The father is is obviously behaving like a dick.

But the OP is not, in my opinion, reacting responsibly. That is a separate issue.

I can relate to the husband's behaviour. There are times when as a step-parent you think the child's parent may be making the wrong call. There is often not a lot you can do. You realise that in fundamental matters to do with health, education etc it is the parent/parents opinion that holds greater sway. And teenagers are also particularly hard to advise.

I've been very lucky in that by and large my husband has asked my opinion a lot in relation to my stepchildren, when they were living with us. Mostly we've had very similar views. At other times we've differed. Sometimes he was right and I was wrong. At other times I had a bit of clarity that he didn't - I think parents are sometimes so keen to have their children's love that they aren't very good at setting boundaries or saying things that the children don't want to hear. So there have been times when my husband's come back to me and basically said that he made the wrong call and that I'd had a point.

I'm not sure how much common ground that the OP and her partner have. Are they working jointly to support the OP's daughter through her difficulties? Or not?

I wouldn't have liked this situation, either. If she was meeting up with a friend, that's fine, but drinking in the afternoon at home? (Am I the only one who was surprised at alcopops? Does anyone actually drink them nowadays?) I can understand why your husband was worried about this. She doesn't sound the most mature girl - I'd be encouraging a more responsible attitude to drinking alcohol.

I agree, Bertramd. Yes, the dad shouldn't be sulking. Yes, it's great that she tells her mum things. Yes, not all men are rapists. But the OP really should have said 'I'm not sure it's the best idea to be drinking in the afternoon at the house of a bloke you don't know very well. Why don't you meet him in a pub/bring him here/get to know him a bit better first?'

When I was at uni, I met another student, a friend of a friend, at a uni bar, got a bit drunk, went back to his and had to fight him off. I did escape from his room unscathed, and outside his room, all his friends were standing around listening. It made me wonder later if they'd have helped if I'd been unable to get away. But I also had lots of male friends who I was perfectly safe with.

And I am not saying “all men are rapists”. (Nobody ever does, other people just accuse them of saying it!)

But this is a situation where all three of them could find themselves doing stuff they might all regret -sex, drugs, too much booze.....And the OP’s dd is not robust. The last thing she needs is anything to knock back her recovery.

And no, I do not think my parental responsibilities end when they hit 16.

I find it weird that he goes moody and closes up at the mention of DD's boyfriend... Maybe because of a personal situation I know of but it just seems a weird reaction to have.

Just a bit more about how I might feel as the OP's husband

1. It sounds as though he had done the day-to-day work of being a Dad for many years
2. He would probably understand that his stepdaughter was upset about the breakdown of the relationship with her biological father. But that distress might be hard for him. After all he'd been the one who had been there for her in a consistent way. So he would probably be feeling rather marginalised.
3. He felt understandable concern that his stepdaughter's first relationship was with somebody who didn't have a job and wasn't studying. Was this relationship going to help her in terms of developing ambitions for the future.
4. He might feel that he really wasn't being given much role at all in terms of helping and advising his stepdaughter - other than, perhaps contributing to the family budget and helping to keep a roof over her head. The counselling sessions had been partly about his partner and the daughter.
5. Now his wife is saying that it's fine for her daughter/his stepdaughter to go and have a few drinks during the day with young men who she doesn't know at all well. And that it is not fine for him to have any kind of different opinion.

I agree, HarrietSmith my DSis has had this with her DSS, but her DH did listen to her views, and sometimes she was right. (He's 21 this year, so no longer an issue.)

Ava your example is totally different because you and your family I expect, knew these boys. Op’s Daughter does not, neither does op. I think it does sound a potentially dangerous situation and it’s not not sexist to say that. Obviously it is likely to be completely fine but a girl going to the house of a boy she doesn’t know, with another boy she also doesn’t know, getting really quite drunk does give a risk that they might see it as a chance to take advantage.

So I think she needs to be talked to about these kinds of risks and ensure she’s prepared, at least....

But it sounds like your dh behaviour is also unreasonable as he is sulking and it communicating which helps no one. I think he should talk to dd about his concerns in a calm fashion if possible. She needs the perspective of a man here, especially with a loser ‘dad’.

Alcohol not good if prone to depression. Teach her about sensible choices.
Not safe travelling alone after drinking, esp if not used to it. Always go with a friend.
What others have said about being with boys you don't know that well, were they in a bedroom, where were the parents?
She needs to be more streetwise, your dp should speak his mind.

As a parent, it would concern me - mainly the fact that she came home tipsy and alone on public transport and that makes her extremely vulnerable. Not because she's a girl. You don't let your friends go home tipsy and alone at that age.

Rousette - my cool mum remark hit a nerve, didn't it? There are some mistakes young people can learn from and others that can ruin their lives. OP's DD was potentially in the latter situation. She might have been tipsy, the boys - who she barely knew - could have been drunk. So instead of coming home tipsy and happy she could have come home having been coerced into sex or raped. But hey we gotta let the kids learn, don't we

I would have talked to her about risks (as identified above), although if they were meeting to game then a pub wouldn’t really work (do youngsters even go to pubs these days? The teens I know don’t). Drugs. I wouldn’t worry about in our case because ds2 tells me every single thought about drugs that goes through his head so I’m very clear on where he is with those.

But in any case I would recognise that I couldn’t dictate what she did at her age - could only give my opinion then leave it up to her. Along with giving her a means of escape if she became uncomfortable (along with maybe a suggested script to use). As I said above I’m most concerned about keeping communication going. That includes sharing my opinions, the growing up/freedom but is recognising they can make their own choices (& if they and impose your own views and values they’ll be gone).

*you try and impose

As I said before, a confident 17 year old with robust mental health and experience of sensible drinking - fine. But the OP's dd is none of these things.

So what would you have done gonk? Marched her home? Grounded her? Shouted at her?

Not all that effective at 17/18.

If my dh said "yeah dd, off you go to this house with boys you barely know and make sure you drink plenty of vodka (alcopops) while you are there" I'd be fucking furious

Your dp probably thinks you are so desperate for her to havr a social life that you are happy to let her make bad decisions.

And how would she become confident without the chance to make her own choices?

I do think the OP should set up a code word system with her dd - maybe pick her up if she is particularly likely to make serious errors of judgement (but OP has already indicated that isn’t the case for her dd) but the only way she will gain confidence is by forming friendships and finding her own way. Staying at home with her parents all the time won’t give her that confidence

YABU
I agree with Olivia

Tbh people ARE entitled to make bad decisions once they are 18. Look at the mental capacity act - the right to make unwise decisions is written into there. It’s part of being an adult.

Teens do make unwise decisions. Quite frequently. That’s why I’d rather they told me about them (& they definitely wouldn’t if they though they were going to get roasted by me. They’d just lie).

I'm in my 40s and I still wouldn't put myself in a room, drunk, with a guy I knew vaguely and a guy I didn't know at all.

I have a feeling the responses here are splitting along the line of "people who have been raped by an acquaintance" and "people who have not been raped".

OP surely you've told your daughter that there is a small minority of predators out there who may want to rape her, and that she won't know who they are by looking? And equally there are loads of people who'd be keen to steal her phone so don't leave it on view in the car when she gets petrol, etc?

I haven't RTFT so I don't know if this has been mentioned but in light of the Ulster Rugby Rape Trial verdict I can understand your DHs point of view. Young men have seen that they can have any kind of sex they want with whoever they want as long as they assume she consents. She doesn't have to actually consent, it's enough for them to think she does. And if alcohol is involved and she has chosen to go to their house, well, that must imply she wanted sex.
It's horrifying and terrifying.

So although in an ideal world your daughter can hang out with whoever she likes, wherever she likes and they're all good friends, in reality those boys can decide to have sex with her whether she likes it or not and society (or at least the jury) will blame her