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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To let my 12 year old dd and her friend to go out for lunch by themselves?

162 replies

listsandbudgets · 28/03/2018 14:21

School finishes at noon tomorrow (DD's school always does on last day of term confused ) and dd is bringing her friend home with her on the bus. Both of them are sensible girls.

I thought as a treat, I'd give them some cash to go out and buy lunch together. I've said that they have to do it local to home after they've go off bus - there are loads of cafes around here to easy to find somewhere. However, I've just talked to her friends mum and she's put her foot down with a firm no.

Apparently they are fine to get the bus and walk to and from bus stop but not eat in a cafe.

Obviously I will abide by her wishes and go out with them myself but now I'm beginning to wonder if IABU to think it might have been a good idea. I just thought it would be a nice bit of independence for them.

OP posts:
OhOfCourse · 29/03/2018 23:39

Could it be that she doesn't have any money to give her daughter?

Abbylee · 30/03/2018 03:14

Honestly, what sensibility children have often disappears when they are on their own. Both of my dc did something boneheaded in later teens; it's not age or seeming maturity. Their brains donot stop maturing until about 25.

I think a compromise with the other mom would be okay. I would not have been very comfortable with this at that age and now, as they are older and feeling like they can confide in me, I would have been right.

I'm never sure if i want to hear their stories or not bc, well remember when you were that age? Did your dp tell you about his adventures? Dc are up to the same stuff.

EmmaGrundyForPM · 30/03/2018 03:27

The other mother sounds very over protective. My ds1 was quite behind socially, and not streetwise at all, and I didn't have any reservations about him doing this at that age.

Abbylee · 30/03/2018 03:29

I'm going to be called crazy, etc. But I'm researching Human Trafficking right now and this age is perfect for being vulnerable.

A young person (make or female) looks nice, friendly, helpful, usually charismatic strikes up conversation with a young person. It doesn't have to have that day, but its called "grooming" and eventually the victim thinks it's their own idea to go away.

I read a quote from a policeman who said "EVERY parent who loses a child this way says 'my dd said that he treated her like a princess.'"

It's 2nd to drugs, crosses all socioeconomic strata and 57% are white, English speaking girls. 32 million people a year.

Please look up info and discuss.

Octave777 · 30/03/2018 03:32

''That's simply not true, and what you're doing is writing a charter for paranoid helicopter parents.''

It is true. It can be any background.

TeisanLap · 30/03/2018 03:51

nd by the way for YOUR information DD's friend IS Muslim!!

I did wonder if there could be a cultural aspect to mum refusing.

DryHeave · 30/03/2018 04:09

Agree with PP who suggested they might not have the money? I grew up very poor and would ask my mum to say no to things for me rather than admit we didn’t have the money to do things.

treaclesoda · 30/03/2018 04:09

The OP said she'd be paying.

BringBiscuits · 30/03/2018 04:13

She is BU. 12 definitely mature enough!

CuboidalSlipshoddy · 30/03/2018 07:21

But I'm researching Human Trafficking right now

But not critically assessing, it would appear. Rather like people who think they are "researching" vaccination by reading websites and nodding when it sounds truthy.

Let's put to one side that cases of human trafficking involve, you know, trafficking and therefore the physical removal of someone from one location to another. Cases of child abduction other than as part of custody disputes are incredibly rare in the UK and, even if we chuck in unexplained disappearances of all sorts, it's about fifty a year. Fifty too many, obviously, but not remotely the epidemic you are trying to claim. But that's accepting your conflation of grooming with trafficking, which is misleading.

A young person (make or female) looks nice, friendly, helpful, usually charismatic strikes up conversation with a young person. It doesn't have to have that day, but its called "grooming" and eventually the victim thinks it's their own idea to go away.

So you'll be providing some evidence of cases such as that happening in the UK in any significant quantity. Note: not Rotherham, Telford, Oxford etc, hideous and upsetting as they are. Because there was little to no "go away" in those cases, and indeed the heart of the scandal is parents who knew their children were being abused and yet knew precisely where they were being unable to access help, support and police intervention. There were no? almost no? cases within those hideous stories of abduction, trafficking or other removal from context. Their very horror is in the "under our noses" element. This is not, for emphasis, to minimise, trivialise, "other" or otherwise reduce the enormity of the crimes against the victims in those cases: it is to point out that calling it "trafficking" is entirely missing the point, and conflating two very different crimes. But let's go with your argument and conflate them.

I read a quote from a policeman who said "EVERY parent who loses a child this way says 'my dd said that he treated her like a princess.'"

Firstly, a large proportion of the children who were the victims in Rotherham were from backgrounds where "parent" means "the state". Secondly, you're being very vague about "loses a child". So, not Rotherham, then, but abduction and murder? Abduction and permanent disappearance? Such cases are largely sui generis, but you're claiming there is an epidemic of children being groomed and then abducted permanently? Cases, please? They'll be quite newsworthy, wouldn't you say?

It's 2nd to drugs, crosses all socioeconomic strata and 57% are white, English speaking girls. 32 million people a year.

And we get to the total bollocks part, which makes me say "if you're researching it for an undergraduate course, do better, before your tutor says 'critically evaluate your sources'."

32 million x 0.57 = 18m, roughly. About 360m people speak English as their first language, but a large proportion of them are not white. I'm not going to write your essay for you, but can we settle on 80% of people who speak English as a first language being white? It's about right. So 288m. Half of them are female. 144m. Making some handwaving assumptions about demographics (and bearing in mind that in general it is not white populations which are growing) let's say "girls" means 0-20, life expectancy 80 (which is about right for white, English speaking populations), so 25%, or 36m.

You are claiming that every year, out of a world-side population of 36 million white, English speaking women aged under 20, 18 million of them are the victims of child trafficking. You are claiming that each year, FIFTY PERCENT OF ALL WHITE YOUNG WOMEN ARE TRAFFICKED EACH YEAR. So by the time someone gets to 20, there is only a one in a million chance (literally: 1 over 2 to the 20) that they have not been trafficked at least once?

Seriously? You are claiming that out of every million young white women, 999 999 of them have been the victims of trafficking (disappeared, police involved, "gone away", trafficking) at least once?

That's taking wild hysteria to whole new heights.

lisahpost · 30/03/2018 07:24

If she lets them go to and from the bus stop it’s weird they can’t go to a cafe !

lisahpost · 30/03/2018 07:26

My 12 year old goes out locally to where we stay when we are abroad as well as when at home to grab himself some food . Gives them a sense of independence within a safe boundary and reaches them to think for themselves and interact ...

Bluetrews25 · 30/03/2018 08:15

So this mother will not allow her daughter to buy something from a shop?
Either they have financial problems and she is financially embarrassed (fair enough, sadly too much of this around), or young females in the family are not allowed basic (to westerners) small freedoms, or mum has terrible anxiety issues that she is going to allow to impact on her daughter.
Either way, this is a great shame.

PorkFlute · 30/03/2018 14:57

Even if the op has said she’ll pay the mum could be reluctant to accept a treat for her dd if she can’t afford to treat the ops dd another time.

Abbylee · 30/03/2018 15:58

Cubic

I wrote 2 responses and both were deleted by my wonky computer or the mn system.

My short response is it may be 57%In North America. Look up Canada's golden triangle and human trafficking/slavery.

I got my information from government websites bc i was skeptical of the news reports.

I was flabbergasted the more I read bc it's not what I expected.

It's often children who begin a friendship and introduce the them to the handler.

Information doesn't make a helicopter parent; it helps children be safe.

I don't care if 1,000 more people dump on me. I am not a expert. I've simply asked people to look this up on your own. There are pamphlets to use. Please just be informed and if you feel it's valid, speak to your dc.

The legal system in North America is now considering a lot of prostitution, Even if the prostitute thinks she'd chosen her career in her own, a form of slavery/ trafficking.

a spirited conversation at the dinner table with dc "guess what some crazy helicopter mom said on mn, blah blah blah..." If you have good, sound information it could save a life, if not your dc, a friend.

Use me as a extreme. Idc. This tragedy needs to end.

Mumto2two · 30/03/2018 16:36

I've always been on the more 'protective' end of the spectrum, but rationally so. And not allowing two 12 year old friends to have a lunch outing together, is really quite odd.

Travellingmamma · 30/03/2018 17:29

My husband’s family are Indian. My sil’s in laws have a 15 year old daughter who is not allowed to go anywhere by herself and it baffles me! I was doing as most of the above have said at 12, walking to school, buses into town, shopping, lunches etc. She seems like a lovely sweet girl, but I feel sorry for her for being on such a tight lead. Apparently her friends aren’t allowed to do much either, but I find that very hard to believe given the nice, quiet, friendly area they live in. I briefly mentioned to my husbands sister that when her niece is allowed some freedom she will most likely abuse it as a rebellion. However, I do kind of understand it, as both my sil and her sil grew up in India, where it is not fun to be a teenage girl. My sil had two experiences in her early teens, one where she was just made very uncomfortable on a bus full of drunk men and once where she was physically groped in the queue for the cinema when she was out with older family members. It was just something that young girls had to put up with. Maybe your friend’s mum had similar experiences as a teenager, making her fearful of what could happen to her daughter. It’s a tough situation, knowing that it’s not the same in the UK now as it was in India, but still knowing what “could” happen to a teenager who’s out by herself. I suppose you have to start somewhere though, your compromise sounded like a good idea, what did you do in the end?

DrCoconut · 30/03/2018 18:09

I wasn't allowed out without an adult or very trusted older teen until I was 15. And not after dark or on public transport until 18. My mum was just very scared that something would happen to me. It was illogical to me to be told I had to stay in because I wasn't street wise when I actually needed to go out to develop those skills. But there was no arguing. Unsurprisingly I rebelled massively at uni and looking back got into some really hairy situations that I was not well equipped to cope with.

TeisanLap · 30/03/2018 18:28

was just something that young girls had to put up with.

If I remember correctly there’s even a name for it. Its called Eve Baiting.

CuboidalSlipshoddy · 30/03/2018 22:48

My short response is it may be 57%In North America.

Or something. Or stuff.

I am not a expert. I've simply asked people to look this up on your own

Shrug. "I read some websites, didn't understand them, don't particularly care what they mean, but IT"S VERY FRIGHTENING". The anti-vax crowd's technique.

LemonysSnicket · 30/03/2018 23:50

My mum would drop me off in town ( 40 mom drive from ours) for about 3 hours at a time at that age. And this was only in 2007

LemonysSnicket · 30/03/2018 23:56

Then again the other mother knows her daughter - maybe she’d have been anxious?

Abbylee · 31/03/2018 01:48

Cubo,
Thank You for parsing a thoughtful post into disrespectful drivel.

Unlike you, I have many things to do. I do not take the word of many people about important things so i referred anyone interested to look on their own.

It's been my experience that insulting someone acknowledges then end of an intelligent, fact based argument.

Good bye.

listsandbudgets · 31/03/2018 17:46

In the end we went to a lovely Syrian cafe and ate yummy Syrian food. Thr girls had theor own table and cash and I sat on other side of cafe and pretended to ignore them! Everybody was happy

I had a lovely text message from the girls mum thanking me and asking DD to come round next week for dinner

OP posts:
awifeyforlifey · 31/03/2018 18:50

It sounds like they had a great time. I had very strict parents and would probably not have been allowed to do this at 12. Maybe at 13, in a group. I think it was a lovely thought, and what you did probably meant a lot to that girl. I doubt she's allowed much freedom at home.