To wonder what the world is coming to when the Daily Fail comments section shows more tolerance and understanding than Mumsnet

[worldsupsidedown]

So, I've name changed as I am thoroughly ashamed of having clicked on the side bar of shame, also having been reading an article in the DM at all.

However, there is a story about a very sweet couple - both, wait for it transpeople .

He was a woman and she was a man, they are young and in love, hard working, successful and when you scroll down to the comments are widely accepted by the readers. I mean these readers are generally considered to be the most closed minded and prejudiced people, but EVEN they are OK with it. Because you know what, it is OK.

However, here on Mumsnet no, no. no. He (the transman who was born a woman) would have to come and change alongside your children, get changed in your female only changing rooms, be in your 'safe spaces'. She (the very beautiful, very feminine transwoman who was born a man) would have to go and change with the men, wouldn't be allowed to use the ladies, wouldn't be allowed to access rape crisis if she was assaulted in those places....if you all got your way.

How the fuckity fuck can anyone justify their batshit opinions of that, the world has gone mad if you think that these people are not allowed to live their lives as the gender they identify with because of your petty prejudice and bigotry. Essentially it is none of your business.

So, AIBU to think WTF is going on when the DM and their readership is a more tolerant and accepting place than here?

As Mermaids has been referenced upthread, I thought I'd mention this. I just sent this letter to a national newspaper:
You printed a good article on gender self ID in last Saturday's i. However I am concerned that you glossed over the aspect of children/young people transitioning. These children can now be offered puberty blocking drugs, hormones of the other sex, and surgery. (Some are taken abroad for this.) Anyone who has taken these drugs - they are sometimes prescribed for other conditions - will know how powerful and potentially damaging they are. Surgery is irreversible, except in the most superficial way.
It seems to me absurd and horrifying that these young people can be treated like this, especially when it has been shown that many with gender ID issues eventually settle comfortably into their own sex and sexuality. Contrast this with the plight of some women with debilitating gynaecological problems and who have completed their families, or who wish to remain child-free, who find appropriate hormone treatment difficult to access, and who are refused surgery on the basis that they "might change their mind".
Please do not publish my name as I work in education and could be disciplined or lose my job for expressing these views, which might well be considered "transphobic" - which is worrying enough in itself.

It's ok everyone, OP isn't concerned at all. It's all going to be fine.

Pack it in, cancel the marches, take down the petition. Someone will have to tell the transpeople who are also concerned about this that they're making a mountain out of a molehill.

What a relief.

'hate speech' ? That's a serious allegation. Perhaps you should report any hate speech to MNHQ or/and the police.
It's an odd coincidence that there has been a flurry of threads in the last day trying to reframe discussions as hate speech.
Plus if you're a MNer you know how to report posts and hide threads. There's no need to try to silence posters who disagree with you.

you aren't even bothering to read responses to your own thread are you OP?

Because they bare no resemblance to what you posted just now

it is NOT prejudice to want to protect women's safe spaces - infact it's quiet feminist

I am no a bigot or a militant - I am not transphobic - I just don't want lesbians abused for refusing to sleep with people with penisis and such like - which I think is reasonable

If you want bigotry and abuse you picked the wrong team

terfisaslur.com/

Hate speech? Where?

The main issue with self ID, imo , is men using it for kicks OP, not for people who have genuinely had operations and treatments.

Hate speech? Where?

I would say that the comments OP has made about feminists that are concerned about self I’d, sounds pretty much like hate speech.

Off to work now so I'm over and out - this thread really was really just an attempt to point out that the TERF rhetoric does not represent the opinions of all of us, by any means - which is has, so that's positive! However carrying on and on round in circles with the same tired old lines being trotted out is tedious in the extreme and not getting anyone anywhere so maybe it is time to put the pitchforks down eh!

I hope though, once this time in history has passed, those people who are so scared of change and people being different will see how this was not a 'thing', there was no need to get so worked up, the sky didn't fall in when everything became more fluid and people are just people and most of them are pretty nice really.. :)

Agree PERF.

That's allowed though. Us nasty bigoted old feminists deserve it for not being super-duper inclusive and nice.

So you can't provide any evidence of the hate speech you've claimed is rife on MN? How unusual.

Wow, if only women would be less horrid, eh op.

so that's it then - you started this thread NOT to discuss things or even listen to alternative views - it was just a little rant at imagined bigots - well done

not one person on this thread has been abusive, bigoted or used 'hate speech'

you've really just illustrated the issue feminists face - people refusing to even listen to their views

There isn’t hate speech. I see no bigotry. There may be prejudice. There is definitely concern.

If you see bigotry and hate speech and transphobia, report it. Absolutely no one wants MN to be like that, I assure you.

I wish the world was equal for all. But it’s not. And making it “equal” for trans people whilst inadvertently stomping on women’s rights is not “equality”.

“He was a woman and she was a man, they are young and in love, hard working, ”

He was a punk
She did ballet
What more can I say

What I don't like is seeing hate speech against a minority group who are working towards a place in time where they are not bullied for being different or somehow inferior because they are not the same as you. Which is ironic given the lengthy struggle women have had to achieve equality.

No one wants to see people bullied.

No one is calling others inferior.

Women have not achieved equality. If they had sex wouldn't need to be a protected characteristic.

Quimby

I hope though, once this time in history has passed, those people who are so scared of change and people being different will see how this was not a 'thing’

I think when the children of the people who are pushing for or underplaying self I’d, grow up, they will look at their parents and say “what the fuck for you thinking?”

OP...

Nope, OP is a middle aged feminist mum of two who liked it when this place was a laugh and a resource for parents rather than a battleground.

Hmm, reminiscent of another trans thread complaining/stamping their feet like a tantrumming toddler that the clever women on here were too busy discussing a women’s rights issue instead of the important work of providing light entertainment and giggles for poor, bored OP...

OP
What is a woman if not biology?

very beautiful, very feminine transwoman who was born a man

Think about it for a minute. You have just reinforced the very gender stereotypes that many women are fighting against. Do you have to be beautiful to be consider a woman? Do you have to be feminine?

What do you mean by feminine?
Not a jet pilot, not a scientist? What exactly does feminine mean and who gets to decide what the standard of femininity actually is?

Do I have an issue with a Trans person with a GRC using the facilities for the their assigned gender - No
Do I have an issue with this couple getting married no matter what their sex or gender is - No
Do I have an issue with self ID - yes
Do I think we need a proper debate on self ID before it is introduced - Yes

I would like ALL discussion of this subject to be removed from MN entirely and have asked for it to be repeatedly.

Yeah, this is Mumsnet, not Twitter. Or Facebook.

Repeatedly asking for something doesn't plop itself into an algorithm of 'if it's said enough times, it must be true'.

Asking for something will get an actual reply, from an actual person.

Repeatedly asking, will get the same person, but now drinking a lot more gin.

Mumsnet is run by women who are capable of an opinion. Shock. An opinion which will inform their decisions.

As for the headline, two people with gender dysphoria fall in love and get married. An appropriate reaction is, congratulations. Each of them managed to find just the right person for them.

Which has zero to do with women's rights.

Weebo

The comments are moderated. Try posting something to comment if you don't believe me OP.

And what is newsworthy about a hetrosexual marriage of 2 people who I have never heard of?

Do me a favor OP.

Give me an example of something someone has posted on MN that suggests they would feel any animosity towards this particular couple.

You feel so strongly about it you must have at least one in your head.

I signed the petition

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118