To wonder what the world is coming to when the Daily Fail comments section shows more tolerance and understanding than Mumsnet

[worldsupsidedown]

So, I've name changed as I am thoroughly ashamed of having clicked on the side bar of shame, also having been reading an article in the DM at all.

However, there is a story about a very sweet couple - both, wait for it transpeople .

He was a woman and she was a man, they are young and in love, hard working, successful and when you scroll down to the comments are widely accepted by the readers. I mean these readers are generally considered to be the most closed minded and prejudiced people, but EVEN they are OK with it. Because you know what, it is OK.

However, here on Mumsnet no, no. no. He (the transman who was born a woman) would have to come and change alongside your children, get changed in your female only changing rooms, be in your 'safe spaces'. She (the very beautiful, very feminine transwoman who was born a man) would have to go and change with the men, wouldn't be allowed to use the ladies, wouldn't be allowed to access rape crisis if she was assaulted in those places....if you all got your way.

How the fuckity fuck can anyone justify their batshit opinions of that, the world has gone mad if you think that these people are not allowed to live their lives as the gender they identify with because of your petty prejudice and bigotry. Essentially it is none of your business.

So, AIBU to think WTF is going on when the DM and their readership is a more tolerant and accepting place than here?

She may not yet be fully female either but for her safety and the safety of our children, female spaces are more appropriate. She poses no risk to anyone but reading MN would make one think that she did

Hang on, why are you justified in thinking she has a right to be afraid of other people but other people don’t have a right to be concerned for their safety? If women have to take your word for it and trust they are no risk then why can’t you take it on trust men won’t be a risk to them?

Because, pardharty, it seems like you feel your DP can’t possibly share spaces with people with penises as they are SO dangerous. So you’re asking women to share their spaces with, er, someone with a penis. See the problem there?

I agree. 100%.

The transphobia on here is shocking.

I'm a massive TERF and I have no issue with the couple in that article.

shrugs

Fuck off to the mail comments section then OP. People are bored.

Ah well, a few predictable responses there. Although nice to see the support and understanding from some posters, very heartwarming to see that a few loud voices on the endless threads really don't represent all of us at all.

There really doesn't seem to be much balance on here of late and MN has become a bit depressing with all the hate and anti-trans/self ID obsession & yep, totally appreciate the irony there of having started a trans thread there but at least it wasn't one of 'those' ones eh!

I think pp's who said 'big deal' are right. It really is "Man marries woman, they are in love and happy" The End. Soon it won't be newsworthy, which is brilliant...the sooner the world becomes a more accepting place the better IMO.

so fucking sick of the trans threads

So you start another one. Maybe you should try actually reading all the trans threads instead of whining about terfs. You might actually educate yourself. BTY, there are a few trans posters who are fully supportive of women trying to maintain boundaries in order to protect females and real trans people.

BTY, thanks for posting this, I’m sure it will help those posters that aren’t already aware of the push for self I’d and the risk it poses to women. 💐

BTY, too many BTYs in that. 😬

Give it a rest OP. Men can marry women, men can marry men, women can marry women, women can marry men. How more accepting do you want us to be?

If you are born a man, you are a man, you can self identify as a goat or a mermaid if you want, but you are still legally and for all intent and purposes a man.

The fact that people are trying to argue about the most basic facts is astonishing, but argue until you are blue in the face, the facts don't change.

& I agree people are bored...very much so, if only MN could return to the days of discussing breastfeeding and penis beakers and having a laugh. I would like ALL discussion of this subject to be removed from MN entirely and have asked for it to be repeatedly.

Hence the comment about the irony of starting another trans thread.

The reason I did though as stated previously is that there are tons and tons of the anti-trans threads with the same people all nodding and agreeing with each other with very little balance against the one sided rhetoric and hyperbole AND when people do dare to disagree with the mouth frothing outrage and bigotry then they are patronised and slammed down with flimsy arguments and repetition of the fear and ignorance that appears to drive the TERF ideology.

However it would appear that the general feeling in the UK is that actually most people are OK with it and that is the way the world is heading - to an accepting and tolerant place because actually it is no big deal.

"transphobic burble burble" "nasty feminists burble burble burble" "man haters burble burble burble" "feminazis burble burble burble" "why can't we all just get along burble burble burble"

Why does it matter that the TIM is beautiful and feminine? Strange thing to mention.

Oh and you want to shut us all up? Stop women talking about the biggest threat to their rights in recent history? You should be ashamed of yourself.

I would like ALL discussion of this subject to be removed from MN entirely and have asked for it to be repeatedly

#nodebate, right? "We tell you how it is, you shut up and accept it, no questions asked" That's pretty much the way of it.

it matters because they are doing a good job of performing femininity, so they look like women to the DM readers.

I think the PP comment about mermaids is spot on, here are a couple that will reassure parents they don't have to have a wierd, non conforming possibly gay kid, they can have a beautiful 'normal' 'heterosexual' kid, through the magic of trans.

the sooner the world becomes a more accepting place the better IMO.

Agreed. Man in a dress - fine (still a man). Masculine-looking woman -fine (still a woman). Gender non-conforming children - fine (still the sex they were born).

People can't change sex, but we should be accepting of people however they present. And now that anyone can marry anyone, there is no need to pretend that people can change sex.

slammed down with flimsy arguments

@pardharty I’d love there to be third spaces alongside male/female so everyone can choose. I’d not like to see your DP discriminated against. Trans people need to be proud of being trans (as it seems this couple in the OP are) and campaign for third spaces and trans services.

The OP is a prime example of those abominable people who demand that 'everyone else' be super tolerant of those who might wish to harm us and act like total doormats, whilst being hawkish, pugnacious and militant themselves.

I'm a huge fucking terf, should die in a fire etc etc.

Two adults got married? Nice. Dress was lovely. Hope they're very happy together.

What was your point?

Just going to leave this here again for anyone else who read that article, thought “how nice to see two people overcome personal adversity in their lives and find true love” but who are also astonished to learn they’re a nasty transphobic bigot for saying women don’t have penises, men don’t have vaginas and the law shouldn’t change to say that biology is secondary to feelings:

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

transphobic burble burble" "nasty feminists burble burble burble" "man haters burble burble burble" "feminazis burble burble burble" "why can't we all just get along burble burble burble.

Couldn’t have put it better myself Juells 🤣

However it would appear that the general feeling in the UK is that actually most people are OK with it and that is the way the world is heading - to an accepting and tolerant place because actually it is no big deal.

Of course most people are OK with other people living how they wish, finding love and being happy. I, like most people, want everyone to be able to find happiness in life.

What people are not ok with is people denying that biology makes a difference. Once men and women are treated equally this really won't be an issue, until then it IS a problem that people claim a protected characteristic they do not have (female sex).

@AltheaTrell totally off topic, but nice to see another Robin Hobb fan!

Can we get Mumsnet to enforce a rule that if a thread is about trans issues it has to be labelled as such in the title do you reckon

Honestly? I’ve yet to look at a title and not know it’s about trans and women’s issues. The titles usually make it pretty obvious, but then again I’m a massive advocate for women’s rights, so it’s probably a third sense. 😁 I’m not saying that you aren’t btw.