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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder what the world is coming to when the Daily Fail comments section shows more tolerance and understanding than Mumsnet

486 replies

worldsupsidedown · 27/03/2018 10:09

So, I've name changed as I am thoroughly ashamed of having clicked on the side bar of shame, also having been reading an article in the DM at all.

However, there is a story about a very sweet couple - both, wait for it transpeople .

He was a woman and she was a man, they are young and in love, hard working, successful and when you scroll down to the comments are widely accepted by the readers. I mean these readers are generally considered to be the most closed minded and prejudiced people, but EVEN they are OK with it. Because you know what, it is OK.

However, here on Mumsnet no, no. no. He (the transman who was born a woman) would have to come and change alongside your children, get changed in your female only changing rooms, be in your 'safe spaces'. She (the very beautiful, very feminine transwoman who was born a man) would have to go and change with the men, wouldn't be allowed to use the ladies, wouldn't be allowed to access rape crisis if she was assaulted in those places....if you all got your way.

How the fuckity fuck can anyone justify their batshit opinions of that, the world has gone mad if you think that these people are not allowed to live their lives as the gender they identify with because of your petty prejudice and bigotry. Essentially it is none of your business.

So, AIBU to think WTF is going on when the DM and their readership is a more tolerant and accepting place than here?

OP posts:
Mumsnut · 27/03/2018 14:07

If you had troubled to look in the Feminism Chat section, you would have found this thread which is almost 100% accepting and congratulatory.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3205824-The-Sun-transwedding-headline

nauticant · 27/03/2018 14:08

1713 signatures to go to hit 10,000. We need more threads like this to get more signatures in.

Weebo · 27/03/2018 14:09

Signed and shared.

Thanks for the link. Smile

NFATR · 27/03/2018 14:09

OP you haven't understood a fucking word. You're so sick of trans threads? Why haven't you tried actually READING any of them, you GF?

busyboysmum · 27/03/2018 14:11

So OP what are your thoughts on this:

"Following such a lovely, positive article from @Emskibeat in today’s @TheSun it’s a real shame that it’s been cheapened by such a sensationalised and misleading headline. @hannahw253 was never a man, as I was never a woman. #trans #fact"

Were they really always the opposite sex? Honestly? You believe this? So if one of my baby boys decided in the future they wanted to transition, they would always have been a girl? Really?

ShatnersWig · 27/03/2018 14:14

I'd actually take you more seriously OP if you'd have stuck by your convictions and NOT namechanged.

lakeshoreliving · 27/03/2018 14:29

People are just people and most of them are pretty nice
I agree completely and this combined with not caring two hoots who used the toilet next to me meant that I dismissed TERF concerns for years.
But when these threads pushed me into thinking a little deeper I realized that just because I felt okay didn't mean other more vulnerable people would. I also realized that it really isn't possible to change sex the most you can do is enter a third space. Finally I acknowledged that the emphasis on appearing as a feminist stereotype was everything I was encouraging my dd not to do and a really regressive view of being female.
I don't care who marries who, I want people to be safe and not bullied. I will call people whatever makes them happy. Mumsnet has persuaded me that being a TERF makes sense though.

lakeshoreliving · 27/03/2018 14:34

Damm it I need to review more carefully feminine stereotype not feminist.

UpstartCrow · 27/03/2018 14:45

You dont work with William Jaggs by any chance?

Mercison · 27/03/2018 14:58

So if one of my baby boys decided in the future they wanted to transition, they would always have been a girl? Really?

Not only would they always have been a girl, you would be committing a violent act upon her for ever referring to her as a boy.

Mogleflop · 27/03/2018 15:00

AAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHH

No really OP, you patronising person you.

You haven't taken in a single fucking word yet you dismiss me and others, and you think we're the militant ones on the wrong side of history?

People like you make my brain hurt with how stupid the world is getting.

noeffingidea · 27/03/2018 15:10

I would like ALL discussion of this subject to be removed completely and have asked for it to be repeatedly
So you've attempted to censor and close down discussion on this subject then. See, every time I read something like this I have to ask myself - why? Why are people trying to close down discussion, are they trying to keep something hidden? It seems a little bit suspicious to me, to attempt to unilaterally close down debate in a democracy.
But keep on keeping on, OP.

NFATR · 27/03/2018 15:14

Following such a lovely, positive article from @Emskibeat in today’s @TheSun it’s a real shame that it’s been cheapened by such a sensationalised and misleading headline. @hannahw253 was never a man, as I was never a woman. #trans #fact"

OP, want to comment on this?
You think we're all TERF's for not agreeing with this absolute opposite of a fact?

mrsreynolds · 27/03/2018 15:18

Sigh

Biology is NOT bigotry

Stillscreaming · 27/03/2018 15:23

I think the fact that anyone even brings up 'self id' or any other their other dog whistle trans issues on a thread about two adults getting married, proves that the anti trans feeling has fuck all to do with 'self id'.

Most posters don't know what 'self id' means, what impact, if any it will have on them or what particular set of laws they are talking about.

Stillscreaming · 27/03/2018 15:29

*I'd actually take you more seriously OP if you'd have stuck by your convictions and NOT namechanged.+

I don't change my name when I post. I get called a man, have the wrong pronoun used,mbeen told that I'm not a proper lesbian and been compared to a sex offender.

I can see why the op didn't feel comfortable sharing her view, that a marginalised monitory group face more prejudice by some MN users than they do by Daily Mail readers, under her usual username. The aggression is bloody awful.

Takfujuimoto · 27/03/2018 15:34

You are either deliberately missing the point about self ID debate and have no compassion for natal women or you are really just ignorant and a bit thick.

There is nothing logical about your posts, you seem determined to deny reality and people like that can not be argued with.

All you have is my contempt.

gamerchick · 27/03/2018 15:34

People here are worried about self-ID and the removal of the legal term "woman". Not transpeople

Now I don’t know a whole lot about it but this ^^ is exactly what I see in all those threads. so it’s always perplexing when people post ranty threads about something they’re seeing in these threads. It’s like they’re reading something else completely. Confused

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 27/03/2018 15:37

Oh come on, on Mumsnet most posts are direct and frank. People don't dance around sugarcoating points. If you are not used to this, maybe it seems aggressive. It seems laughable to me to make that comparison, having spent some time on Twitter. On this particular issue, a lot of the MN posts are forceful out of frustration that it doesn't matter what's said, the people flinging accusations of transphobia around don't read them and just carry on repeating the same old stuff again and again, without bothering to answer questions or give examples.

Stillscreaming · 27/03/2018 15:41

You are either deliberately missing the point about self ID debate and have no compassion for natal women or you are really just ignorant and a bit thick.

There is most certainly a lot of thickness about, if anyone thinks that self id has anything at all to do with these two getting married.

PsychoPumpkin · 27/03/2018 15:46

I don’t think anyone thinks these two have anything to do with the self ID debate.

It was OP who accused the feminists on mumsnet of being transphobic and used the daily mail comments on that article to prove a point. An article that had, as you say, has naff all to do with self ID, which is one of the issues we’re worried about.

No one is worried about two people who have fallen in love and gotten married.

Onlyoldontheoutside · 27/03/2018 15:46

There all sorts of threads on here that I don't want to read,so I don't.
Happy to be informed about self id.

Mogleflop · 27/03/2018 15:47

Wtf are you on about Still? Are there hate threads about these two somewhere I don't know about?

I'd still like someone - anyone - to define transphobia and give an example of it on Mumsnet.

MsGameandWatching · 27/03/2018 15:53

I saw that report in the DM too, the comments were moderated so that's why they were all so positive.

Stillscreaming · 27/03/2018 15:54

On this particular issue, a lot of the MN posts are forceful out of frustration that it doesn't matter what's said, the people flinging accusations of transphobia around...

That because most of the nonsense trotted out has no basis in fact or reality. For most normal people, trans issues take up absolutely no headspace, they might know a trans person, they might not but it's not a big deal either way. In the few weeks on MN we had been presented with the following, which I've run together for clarity:

My lesbians taxi driver's family are trying to erase her lesbian hood by encouraging her to transition, rather than popping to TopShop to make her look more like a girl. She was telling me that, just the other day, she picked up a girl from school who was getting weekly detentions from not changing for games in front of a trans child. That trans child is not being stigmatised at all for transitioning in school and, in fact is being actively encouraged to do so, so that he can 'cotton ceiling' all of the baby dykes.

She also picks up, a child who demands to be called 'Ann' on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays and 'Bob' for the rest of the week. If her classmates make any mistakes, they have to go to trans prison. Trans prison is very dangerous because it's full of sex offending, men in dresses who have tricked unsuspecting prison authorities who don't have any experience of dealing with anyone telling fibb, bless 'em.

Lily Madigan is the boss of all trans people. Her Twitter account isn't full of self obsessed nonsense, it's all the official view of the full 'trans lobby'. They all take a vote before she Tweets anything and they are all in full agreement. They know her to have such a winning personality and persuasive way with words, that she will be able to recruit all the young lesbians.

Waitrose are encouraging trans women to eat Mother's Day by producing cards that don't say 'mother' on them.