To wonder what the world is coming to when the Daily Fail comments section shows more tolerance and understanding than Mumsnet

[worldsupsidedown]

So, I've name changed as I am thoroughly ashamed of having clicked on the side bar of shame, also having been reading an article in the DM at all.

However, there is a story about a very sweet couple - both, wait for it transpeople .

He was a woman and she was a man, they are young and in love, hard working, successful and when you scroll down to the comments are widely accepted by the readers. I mean these readers are generally considered to be the most closed minded and prejudiced people, but EVEN they are OK with it. Because you know what, it is OK.

However, here on Mumsnet no, no. no. He (the transman who was born a woman) would have to come and change alongside your children, get changed in your female only changing rooms, be in your 'safe spaces'. She (the very beautiful, very feminine transwoman who was born a man) would have to go and change with the men, wouldn't be allowed to use the ladies, wouldn't be allowed to access rape crisis if she was assaulted in those places....if you all got your way.

How the fuckity fuck can anyone justify their batshit opinions of that, the world has gone mad if you think that these people are not allowed to live their lives as the gender they identify with because of your petty prejudice and bigotry. Essentially it is none of your business.

So, AIBU to think WTF is going on when the DM and their readership is a more tolerant and accepting place than here?

However, here on Mumsnet no, no. no. He (the transman who was born a woman) would have to come and change alongside your children, get changed in your female only changing rooms, be in your 'safe spaces'. She (the very beautiful, very feminine transwoman who was born a man) would have to go and change with the men, wouldn't be allowed to use the ladies, wouldn't be allowed to access rape crisis if she was assaulted in those places....if you all got your way.

WTAF are you talking about? Dont you know there are separate Rape Crisis facilities for men and women?
Why dont you campaign for a third space or service for trans people?

Don't misrepresent people and try to claim the moral high ground.

I'm always wrong

Don’t worry, you’ll get there and unlike me you’ll get a sixth sense instead of a third sense. 🤭☺️

If us women got our way.

Stop trying to dismiss women and our rights and maybe then you might get more support.
We can say and protect our rights as much as we like despite TRA's threatening us and attempting to shut us down.

Congrats to the happy couple though, I hope they'll be happy.

I find it hard to understand why MN allows some of the posts that they do which are very clearly transphobic.

@pardharty

Maybe try reporting them if you think they’re transphobic?

@worldupsidedown, or any one else please. I regularly see posts saying mumsnet isntransphobic, yet I rarely see anything I think of as transphobic so please could you point me at specific threads that you find to be transphobic, perhaps indicating specific sentences or posts that are particularly transphobic so I can better understand what exactly you find offensive thanks

For the love of God OP, it's not that complex!

I don't care who marries who- here is what I care about. If you still have a fully functioning cock you should not be allowed into spaces where women and children may be vulnerable.

You see how simple that is?

Literally no one cares which pretty person married which other person!!

Also if you don't like the trans threads Don't Read Them!

There are literally hundreds of other threads to read, I genuinely have no trouble finding other stuff

I suspect you just want to get wound up about this though

Yes my earlier post was sarcastic.

I agree completely with sourpatch

I think this is what most of the public thinks too tbh

I'm sure misrepresenting MN threads will get you virtue cookies somewhere. In the meantime
In the future if you want to appear tolerant perhaps avoid using slurs against women. Atm you seem like a hectoring hypocrite which is an odd look for celebrating a wedding.

Seriously, who gives a fuck?

very beautiful, very feminine transwoman

oooh that's ok then, beauty & femininity wins the day.

What all this has to do with concerns re Self-IDers, in Womanface ie penis & balls forever intact, wanting to erode womens' rights rather than simply live alongside women - oh as many Transwomen have been doing for years on end OP - just pointing that out as you don't seem able to discern - I don't really know. There are Transwomen who have concerns around Self-IDers but their voices have been shut down. For now.

My concern is women in Refuges. Women in prison. Women and girls who may as well stop training in sport/medals as they aren't going to win. Mainly.

IDGAF about femininity and beauty. Then again looking thru again, who knows what you're on about really. 2 people in a relationship - and...? Can't see a problem with that

I don't think a single poster I have seen on Mumsnet wouldn't wish a couple well in finding love, trans or not.

That's not the issue, though.

The issue is proposed changes to the law that will affect womens and girls' rights. There is nothing 'transphobic' about that.

I honestly cant see why people cant get that.

People like the op prefer to believe that some of society's most liberal people have suddenly - almost overnight - turned into rabid conservatives full of prejudice and bigotry.

I don't know why they prefer to think that rather than listen, but I think it must be easier on their little brains.

very beautiful, very feminine transwoman

Clear something up for me, OP, how is someone's appearance in any way relevant to this argument? You're basically saying 'this person's a man, but he hides it so well'.

This argument will go around in circles until everyone agrees that sex is overwhelmingly XX/XY and that gender is a meaningless concept.

I would like ALL discussion of this subject to be removed from MN entirely and have asked for it to be repeatedly.

Clearly OP is a man annoyed that women can discuss this on MN.

I would like ALL discussion of this subject to be removed from MN entirely and have asked for it to be repeatedly.

That's er brilliantly tolerant.

Mind you, I'm the same about the fishnet section. Oof, don't like people discussing fish. I have asked for it repeatedly to be removed.

yab utterly utterly u

Yes these people sound nice and need to be treated with respect.

But you've put up a ridiculous straw man for people who have concerns about self id.
Both the language you use and your attempt to shut women up is misogynistic.

very beautiful, very feminine transwoman

Here’s an idea, why don’t you head over to Twitter and say that. You’ll be torn apart for implying that a TIM passes well because of the way they look. Don’t like to break it to you sweetie, but you are considered a transphobe, because of what you just posted.

Mind you, Twitter tells me they’re both very cross about the headlines because they have always been “a man” and “a woman” and are not “trans”. So, we’re back to denying reality, which is a shame.

Following such a lovely, positive article from @Emskibeat in today’s @TheSun it’s a real shame that it’s been cheapened by such a sensationalised and misleading headline. @hannahw253 was never a man, as I was never a woman. #trans #fact

Fact. So there!

I knew this was going to be about this couple. It’s all over twitter.

No problems with them getting married, I hope they have a long and happy life together but I’m not sure selling their story to the Sun was wise and I disagree he was always a woman and she always a man.

Way to spectacularly miss the point of gender-critical womens' concerns.

Nobody begrudges these people their happiness. Nobody reasonable, anyway. Two people getting married and happily living their lives, who gives a fuck.

Gender critical =/= hating transpeople.

Nope, OP is a middle aged feminist mum of two who liked it when this place was a laugh and a resource for parents rather than a battleground that has been hijacked by a small group of militants fighting for a non-issue that appears to come along with a side order of deep and nasty prejudice.

I am understanding when people have different politics (to a degree, I mean I think UKIP are a bunch of cunts) or religion, race or sexuality I don't mind where you come from or what you do in bed and I really don't care what you have in your pants or whether you want to identify as a man a woman or a unicorn. I am for equality for all. What I don't like is seeing hate speech against a minority group who are working towards a place in time where they are not bullied for being different or somehow inferior because they are not the same as you. Which is ironic given the lengthy struggle women have had to achieve equality.

I don't feel threatened by transpeople - pre or post op or no op, I don't think that self-id is going to bring along a tsumani of bearded men wanking at us round every corner and as I said before the fear and ignorance fuelling this hyperbole is saddening and the anti-trans sentiment is not just offensive but is bigoted, and bigotry should not be tolerated by humans - regardless of what they have in their underwear.

Holy shit - I've just seen the article title by The Sun

"Tran and Wife"

If you want to talk about disrespect, that it is right there from the very paper this couple sold their story to.