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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To think Mumsnet is OBSESSED

974 replies

AccidentalKylie · 22/03/2018 20:11

I used to read Mumsnet because it was a lot of clever, funny women talking about stuff I was interested in, but it's become a one issue forum. It's exhausting.

To think Mumsnet is OBSESSED
OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
SecretsRSecrets · 25/03/2018 17:35

NoSquirrels do you have a link to the Candy/Zombie/Gin story, pleaseGrin

I'm finding this thread odd. When I joined MN, I didn't even find the Feminist Chat section for a month. There are eleventy billion threads on MN, so there are always tons of things to read in a variety of subjects.

Once I did find FC board, I just picked the threads that interested me. I didn't know what the trans threads were, so it was about another month until I clicked on one because of the contents in the title (thank goodness!)

How the heck are people having trouble avoiding clicking on threads? Really?

Doesn't interest you, don't click, it's really that easy.

Hope that helps!

BlackeyedSusan · 25/03/2018 17:40

well my computer jumps about all over the bloody place and I accidently click on all sorts. Such an effort to click the back button and try again.

[eyeroll]

merrymouse · 25/03/2018 17:45

Quick somebody post again! I checked and there were no feminist or trans threads in active convos at all!

Just some rubbish about weddings and vets!

BlackeyedSusan · 25/03/2018 17:46

really? the guide one was in earlier.

Tralalee · 25/03/2018 17:48

How bizarre. There are loads of threads about trying to conceive, baby names and dieting. I'm not interested in them so I don't open them. It's not hard to do.

I enjoy reading the trans threads.

malificent7 · 25/03/2018 17:54

Nowt wrong with feminism...the teans thing annoys me...live and let live and not everyone with a penis wants to rape women even if they are in the same toilets as them...

malificent7 · 25/03/2018 17:55

trans thing even...

Goldenbug · 25/03/2018 17:59

8000 people have signed the petition. That's 0.012% of the population.

The FWR stance is not really the popular view on trans.

TheBrilliantMistake · 25/03/2018 18:01

Malificent, I think everybody knows that (or ought to), but...

people are not saying that everyone with a penis will rape, they are saying everyone who rapes has a penis. If you want to be sure of not being raped or abused or just imposed upon by a penis owner, then the only way to guarantee that is by not having men in female spaces.

Pretty logical argument to my mind.

busyboysmum · 25/03/2018 18:02

Mumsnet is having a big effect as can be seen from the #manfriday campaign which is forcing Swim England to review it's policy.

Well done you brave campaigning women. This ties in well I think with the big issue about freedom of speech that is also raging ATM.

merrymouse · 25/03/2018 18:03

not everyone with a penis wants to rape women even if they are in the same toilets as them

That is a logical argument to use if you think all toilets should be unisex, but doesn’t really explain why you would let some people with penises into a female space and not others.... and then you have to ask why have female spaces at all... and then it’s not really a case of ‘live and let live’, but women having no space.

You might not care about that, but clearly many do.

TerfsUp · 25/03/2018 18:28

not everyone with a penis wants to rape women even if they are in the same toilets as them

That's an example of the 'No True Scotman' logical fallacy: making it true for one person does not make it true for all.

TerfsUp · 25/03/2018 18:29

Well done you brave campaigning women

The vast majority of the credit goes to Amy Desir. I applaud her for starting the #ManFriday movement.

Pansiesandredrosesandmarigolds · 25/03/2018 18:32

Agreed, OP.

NoSquirrels · 25/03/2018 19:22

8000 people have signed the petition. That's 0.012% of the population. The FWR stance is not really the popular view on trans.

@Goldenbug you know it’s a women’s rights petition, not an anti-trans petition?

I’m pro-trans people living their lives. I’ll speak up in support of them if their rights don’t directly contradict women’s rights.

I think more people would sign if they knew the definition of “woman” and “man” was about to change.

TheBrilliantMistake · 25/03/2018 19:23

Not many people know about the petition, it's not on people's radar yet.
The vast majority of the public simply don't know there's any issue right now.

NoSquirrels · 25/03/2018 19:36

@SecretsRSecrets
IAmZombie was a poster who was hugely hugely loved on MN. Her name was Candy and there’s a Woolly Hugs project in her memory here:
www.woollyhugs.org/2017/02/06/candys-hugs/

For her backstory, she posted this:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/other_subjects/1952054-Why-Zombie-is-Zombie-the-backstory

The gin appeared just before she died in January 2017. It was her favourite drink.

SecretsRSecrets · 25/03/2018 19:53

Thank you @NoSquirrels!!

aaarrrggghhhh · 25/03/2018 20:06

Haven't read the whole thread - but OP heres a copy and paste from a comment on one of THOSE pesky threads.

Really not of interest? To parents/relatives of either possible child in these scenarios something surely you'd want to be aware of??

Or if not - as said, don't read the thread.

This is an extract from a leaflet produced by East Sussex Council, with the endorsement of the head of Children's Services. (In which 'trans' is defined as: Transgender, Transsexual, Cross-dresser, Neither male nor female, Androgynous, A third gender, Or who have a gender identity which we do not yet have words to describe)

Scenario 1
My daughter doesn’t want a boy changing next to her, what if he looks at her body?

For example, in this scenario it would not be appropriate to remove the trans person from the changing rooms if a concern is raised by a parent or carer. In this situation, it would be far more appropriate to look at offering an alternative changing arrangement for the child who feels uncomfortable around the trans person. A Human Rights response would be to state that although the individual in question may have the body of a boy, they are in every other respect a girl and as such have the right under the Equality Act to change with the girls and to be treated fairly as such.

The legal advice here is questionable - the equalities act still recognises sex as a protected characteristic, self ID is not yet law, but what on earth does 'in every other respect a girl mean?' What is the head of children's services (a middle aged man, by the way), trying to tell girls about what it means to be a girl and their rights to set boundaries?

Here is another example:

Scenario 2
It’s not fair that he enters the 100 metres race for girls when he is a boy/Or Won’t she get injured playing rugby with boys?

Similarly, pupils or students who feel that a trans* child should not be involved in certain sporting activities may themselves need to be supported to do a different activity.
This kind of support acknowledges that some individuals may struggle to understand trans people or initially feel uncomfortable around them, but does not support the idea that trans people should be treated any differently to cisgendered people. The responsibility lies with the individual who has the problem to deal with that problem, not with the trans* person to accommodate for that person’s insecurity around them or their child.

TerfsUp · 25/03/2018 20:24

In other words, girls will have to find a new place to change. But when they do, their trans-identifying male classmates will insist that they be allowed access.

When girls find new sporting activities then they will have to give those up when a trans-identifying male classmate decides that they need to have access to those activities, too.

And so it goes. Until women have no spaces / activities / posts to call their own.

Except I'm not having it.

Italiangreyhound · 25/03/2018 20:28

I wonder if any tv channel would be willing to do a programme and the petition from the view of self Id changes.

Italiangreyhound · 25/03/2018 20:29

about the petition.

TheBrilliantMistake · 25/03/2018 20:33

Even if you accept that the numbers of genuine trans people is quite small and the number of 'faux' trans people wanting to abuse the system is (as yet) unknown, it's still the thin end of a wedge.

Once the sanctity of female spaces is lost, what next? It's not paranoia or anti this or anti that, it's a genuine concern.

Every once in a while we DO have to address people's rights and make reparations for past ill judgments, but it just feels instinctively wrong to sacrifice the rights of real women in order to appease those who would like to be real women (but aren't). The current political climate is hellbent on being inclusive and protective of minorities, which in principle I agree with, but it's causing a loss of focus on the wellbeing of the majority.

pinkcandy84 · 25/03/2018 20:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheBrilliantMistake · 25/03/2018 20:46

It will make the TV headlines, don't worry. I just fear by the time it does, it might be too late and legislation's gone through, but we shall see.
Even if it does go through, I can't see it lasting for long once the repercussions reveal themselves (pardon the pun).

As others have said, many sites will be reluctant to allow discussion on the topic through fear of being deemed transphobic, and others perhaps have used language that appears too strongly worded for the stomachs of passive readers, so they deem it to be extremism - which prevents the message from spreading.
Everybody has their own opinions of course, but there's a couple of great writers on here who have the clarity of vision and expression to convey the concern without seeming extreme. I think those are the types of women who could convince many others. Can they do it in time to persuade politicians to have yet another re-think? I hope so.