To think Mumsnet is OBSESSED

[AccidentalKylie]

I used to read Mumsnet because it was a lot of clever, funny women talking about stuff I was interested in, but it's become a one issue forum. It's exhausting.

I second those thanks to OP for raising awareness in this way.

It beggars belief that people - women, no less- are being so wilfully stupid about this.

What I also struggle to understand is why people like OP are so willing to believe that loads of normal MNetters would feel spontaneous, illogical hatred for trans people. Just - why???

Why on earth would we have a random hatred for them? These are normal MNetters- we're not bigots or far-right loons or fundamentalist nutcases.

We (I include myself because, though not a stalwart like some, I've argued the case under various names) have logical points. We have reasons. And fears.

Not one of the naysayers has ever managed to explain why it's NOT worrying to enshrine actual lies in law.

@SirVixofVixHall Thank you for the clips from Magdalen Berns.

Maybe these do explain why lesbians are being subject to gaslighting tactics.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOqbwWymcTo

www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_5FFGrGzJw&t=616s

Why on earth would we have a random hatred for them? These are normal MNetters- we're not bigots or far-right loons or fundamentalist nutcases.

Exactly. And targeting feminists, of all people?

Feminists have historically and traditionally endorsed, supported and sponsored minorities. It's what they do.

They are, very often, left-leaning and, by nature and ideology, inclusive.

It's risible to think they have all suddenly become politically incorrect, bigoted zealots.

Yes AnxiousPeg . Every time this is on tv it drives me barmy, the disingenuous presenting of this as something akin to homophobia . The women protesting are in the main kind, liberal and thoughtful. The sort of women who fought for gay rights, hardly bloody Blackshirts. I am so angry at this enormous dismissal of women, the closing of any sensible debate , the cries of “bigot” that swiftly turn to “bitch “ or “cunt” by left wing men. It is unbelievable. We have to stand up on this.

Agreed.

They are pretending to think that's who we are.

They know.

They do know yes. They know full well .

I'm coming to this thread very late but to answer the OP's question I think it is obsessed. But....when I going mn I was obsessed with the etc boards and spent loads of time posting on them, I then gradated to the pregnancy boards, through a number of other categories to cover the baby/toddler years, on to primary education and eventually graduated to the Style and Beauty and Au Pair boards. I have spent more time than I dare to think about on mn since about 2005 and during that time have posted and read a few categories that are of interest and importance to me at the time. I now spend most of my time on the feminist chat threads (having not set foot near them until about 6 months ago). The reason I am spending so much time there is that I feel the proposed changes to the GRA will have such an impact on me and my daughters that. No one is obliged to click on threads that don't interest them but I am extremely grateful to mners for posting about the issue and I simply think that the "obsession" reflects the potential impact on mners and their dcs.

Sick to death of the transphobia accusation.

So am I. They flutter in, shit all over everything screeching 'transphobia, transphobia', can't provide an example when asked for one, then huff out again. It always looks like non-thinking SJW stuff to me. The kind of people who say 'no war, war is bad'. You don't say.

And the constant, constant mischaracterisation of our objections as being only about toilets.
I have to step away sometimes, I get too angry.

'Transphobia' is becoming a nothing word.

It's been so overused as a means of telling people to shut up, it's becoming hard to take seriously.

I am sorry you feel that way OP, however many women, many of them have never been activists or feminists are quite rightly concerned about their children who are being told they can "magically" become the opposite sex and that becoming a transsexual will resolve all their mental health issues which is patently a lie. There are also bigger issues in that women would like to be consulted upon with regard to changes in the law which will have a direct impact upon privacy and dignity. If you think this is obsessive they perhaps it might be wise to check the mirror and in the meantime why not sign this petition: petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

The thing is that people on these threads regularly claim that they're not transphobic because their issue is purely with self-identifying and trans women with full male genitalia, and they have no issue with post-operative transwomen. But, every so often, someone posts a thread about a post-operative transwoman and we see the same amount of bile and aggression till MN has to pull the thread. I've seen it twice recently and pointed out that the attitudes demonstrated really aren't consistent with these claims, to be met with very few responses, mostly demonstrating either discomfort or a degree of blank denial.

Oh really Gnu ? How convenient that you won't be able to link to these mythical threads that have been 'pulled'

Gnu is right

Reddit

same amount of bile and aggression

Same as all those other unsubstantiated instances, you mean?

And your scenario really rather depends on what the post-op trans women comes on here to say. If she comes to force everyone to agree that she is 100% an actual woman, that in itself is an act of aggression. Some measure of hostility might be expected in retaliation; we don't all have to sit around being welcoming and getting the best china out when an aggressive man arrives, believe it or not.

'Transphobia' is becoming a nothing word

You missed the current thread at the moment?

It's not transphobia - just an excuse for lots of comments of their views on the trans community.

"Having a relationship with a transperson physically repulses me"

Plus similar comments on that line.

That thread is just an excuse to lay into all kinds of trans people and to comment on us.

Oh - and it's just a way for the OP to get in the self-ID petition as well.

Still - free speech and all that. But free speech on who someone would like sex with seems to only be applied to some groups and not to others.

GnotherGnu

It's really rather difficult, and not to be expected, to keep one's tongue between one's teeth when you are reading what autogynephile tossers say about both themselves, and women.

The very definite distinction between them and transsexuals is why you get the dual attitude.

It's why people can say they have compassion for transsexuals in one breath and be very angry and outraged over AGP individuals, in the other.

You are talking about two different cohorts, which are coming under the same umbrella of 'transwoman'.

It's like talking about men in general, and rapists in particular. The narrative changes depending which one you are talking about.

And no I'm not saying transwomen are rapists. But when there is a significant cohort who are fetishists, and you have all their blogs, tweets, and websites denigrating women and claiming 'protection' on the basis of transphobia, women are absolutely going to highlight it.

Because it's sort of the point.

This is a link about an article from an autogynephile, who is, nonetheless, apparently, just as much a transwoman as any other transwoman.

So as much as we have NAMALT, the same goes for trans.

transsingleblog.wordpress.com/2016/04/25/make-love-with-transgender-females/

But, every so often, someone posts a thread about a post-operative transwoman and we see the same amount of bile and aggression till MN has to pull the thread.

Well, it depends on the transwoman doesnt it? When CBB was, there was a lot of slating of India Willoughby and I think something got deleted then. But IW was someone who screamed in the face of an 80 year lesbian for accidentally misgendering her, walked around with her tits out in a way that women just don't and talked about choosing her 'vagina' from a catalogue in a rather misogynistic way. So...........

The fact remains that transwomen have been able to live peacefully amongst women for a long time, used the toilets etc without a problem.Women, including so called TERFS, haven't had much of a problem with it. Something has changed, and I don't think it's from the side of women.

Not convenient at all, Anxious; however, if you are interested in the subject you probably saw the threads in question at the time. The transpeople concerned weren't on the threads themselves, they were about post op transwomen who were in the news..

It's interesting that you would rather try to pretend you think I'm lying than actually engage with the point. It's also interesting that you assume the transwoman concerned was being aggressive. In many respects, you've illustrated my point rather well.

Datun and Ellenripley, again, I have no issue with anyone expressing how they despise someone for what they do when their behaviour is actually aggressive, rude, sexist, autogynephile or otherwise objectionable. The problem is when the reaction is not related to their behaviour but purely to the fact that they are trans.

@yetanothertranswoman I could be wrong but I really think most people are not bothered about who has sex with a trans person or how trans people have sex. Maybe I can only speak for myself in this to say I am not concerned, not interested and definitely not repulsed.

However, i am upset at the idea anyone should be coerced into sex. The article linked to back around page 8, I will find it if I can; was suggesting people should not express preferences about their sexual partner.

I don't sleep with anyone except my husband, so this doesn't affect me.

In my wider family (and close friends) we have children who are straight, bisexual (although may be lesbian) and may be trans. (And maybe others too.)

I don't want those young people growing up thinking they can't decide for themselves who they can sleep with.

I totally understand you may not/will not share the author of the article's views. Just as I do not share the views of people who are repulsed by trans people's sex lives.

Gnu

I'm not 'pretending' to think you're lying. I know you're lying. Or at least misrepresenting the situation (quelle surprise!)

There may be hostility from MNetters to certain trans women. But as I said (when I did in fact engage with your point), any such hostility is always in response to aggression from trans women. Do you have any actual evidence to the contrary?

As others have just pointed out, we didn't fire the first shots in this war.

The problem is when the reaction is not related to their behaviour but purely to the fact that they are trans.

Well again, you've got the dual strands going on simultaneously.

The trans ideology is sexist and regressive. All of it.

Gender is damaging to women and is the mechanism by which they are disadvantaged. The trans ideology is based on the upholding of gender.

I can hold that opinion, and also have compassion for someone who has gender dysphoria. The two opinions are not mutually exclusive.

Someone who is gender critical can have sympathy for the condition gender dysphoria, whilst acknowledging, on a profound level, that the belief system which has become attached to it is detrimental to women.

www.buzzfeed.com/raquelwillis/the-transgender-dating-dilemma?utm_term=.snxrkjYk5#.ku5KWABWx

The author most definitely has my sympathy for fearing for her safety on dates. No one, woman or man, should fear for their safety. And no one, woman or man, should need to include anyone on their dating pool.

Ah, the Riley J Dennis School of Misogyny: if you won't date someone based on their genitals, then you are transphobic.

Yawn

I really wish TRAs would come up with some new ideas.

The author most definitely has my sympathy for fearing for her safety on dates.

I read the article and thought that the author of the article needs to choose a better quality of date. I wouldn't go on a date with the person mentioned in the article as I don't date thugs.

Agree. It's really dull, I avoid those threads where possible.