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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to try to talk my ds out of auditioning for a female role in school play?

287 replies

obligations · 21/03/2018 10:43

My ds (11) loves acting, and has an asd which partly means he can get very stuck on an idea and find it hard to move on to make his own life easier.
His school will be putting on a summer play and the lead role is a female one - he is adamant he wants to audition for that role, although some pretty big parts are more obviously male, he says it would be sexist if he wasn't allowed go for the female part and really wants to. I explained his classmates might laugh at him but he says they shouldn't.
The problem is that he gets upset if he feels ridiculed and I had a word with his teacher to advise her that he might get upset if he gets laughed at and she has asked me to try to talk him out of it as there are 'social norms' that he should understand.
So I'm dreading having to tackle it but for him to have an easier time I really think I should. BTW he has never said he feels female, he just wants this role. Anyone got any advice on how best to approach this?

OP posts:
Kleinzeit · 22/03/2018 10:01

Has your ds tried out for one of the theatre schools (I know a few of the children who have been to those schools)because it might make him realise that he wasn't so special.

It's not about being special, it's about wanting to go through a process he understands in a particular way: if you want a role, you audition for it, and then the director decides. No-one has told him that he can't audition for this role at all or that he has already been ruled out for the role because he is the wrong sex. I expect the teacher doesn't want to go there because having used girls in male roles before she knows she would be on shaky ground.

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 22/03/2018 10:03

I doubt the teacher made any sort of reference to social norms if there have been girls playing male roles previously, dexra. That would make no sense at all and if it was genuinely said op should have called her on it at the time. But it seems she did not.

HolyShet · 22/03/2018 10:06

Yes you're right, Kleinzeit , she's referred to "social norms" - this could mean either "he's going to get the piss taken out of him and we both know he won't handle that" (and yeah, the social norms may need tackling); or "I'm going to give the part to a girl"; or even "I am not going to give the part to your son so let's all save ourselves the upset".

Kleinzeit · 22/03/2018 10:19

That would make no sense at all and if it was genuinely said op should have called her on it at the time. But it seems she did not.

The teacher might well have mentioned it. Children with ASCs often do have problems recognising "social norms" and while most children would at least recognise the potential for being laughed at a child with an ASC might not. It need have had anything to do with who was going to get the part.

OP I have mixed feelings about persuading him not to audition. Part of me says, this is a learning opportunity for your DS in dealing with other people's responses. It's a good opportunity because you know about it in advance and so you can prepare him and make him aware and give him coping strategies. And part of me says, you know what your DS can cope with so maybe better not go there! He's your DS and you know him best. Anyway I like the way you are opening up other possibilities for him.

derxa · 22/03/2018 10:42

The girls who played male roles in previous years could well have been the best people for the job. They auditioned and got the parts. Your DS should also audition if he insists. However you ANBU in trying to protect him from ridicule. The teacher should explain one to one why he did not get the part (that is supposing he doesn't).
I would be very annoyed as CT if a parent came in and started dictating how my school production should be run.
By the way SATs are coming up. Why all the fuss about the play now?

Roomba · 22/03/2018 10:47

I auditioned for and played Long John Silver in the school play when I was in Y6 - in 1988. I was dead chuffed to get the part, especially when one of the teachers said there had been 'a lot of debate' about whether to give the part to a girl (!) but I'd been the best at the auditions so he'd stuck up for me and insisted I got the role.

Not one other child in my class passed any comment about it, it just wasn't an issue at all. But I overheard one of the Dads at the performance grumbling about 'I can't believe they've got a GIRL playing Long John Silver, it's ridiculous' Angry

If he wants to do it, is confident and understands that he may get a stupid comment or two, and you know he can deal with any comments without getting upset - please let him do it. We don't tell girls they can't do things because they are female any more (okay, we shouldn't do) so why not apply the same to boys?

BertrandRussell · 22/03/2018 10:52

As someone said earlier it does depend on whether it’s a boy playing a girl’s part as a girl, or playing it as a boy. So Sound of Misic with a boy playing Maria or playing Mario.

CuppaTeaAndAJammieDodger · 22/03/2018 10:53

Mixed about this - couldn’t give a crap about social norms but there is still a definite prejudice towards males and lead roles being male in the entertainment industry in general - so I would be inclined to say let a female have the female lead.

Justanotherzombie · 22/03/2018 10:55

I think you should have been speaking to the teacher about how they could facilitate your son and other boys going for the lead role without making them look silly to their classmates rather than talking to her about how you can get him to back down and go for a 'boy' role.

Original poster
obligations · 22/03/2018 11:10

OK - so he is definitely not throwing his weight around or demanding anything; he has not been in any west end musicals or on tv, basically when much much younger (maybe 6 or 7) he had one line in two films partly because he was asked to be an extra by a director we know and I think (being unbiased and all Grin) of his cute looks he was asked to say a line, all other performances have been playing one of his instruments or singing in a choir or as solo with the choir.

Teacher definitely said social norms - I was the one who said to her that I was worried that the others would laugh, I think she was pretty shocked that he was considering going for the role. From her expression and knowing her past attitude, it was a mix of oh we can't have a boy going for this role and an agreement with me that kids would laugh. The other kids aren't bullies, just regular 11 year olds.

There are three or four big female roles, same number of male roles. I imagine girls will be allowed go for any role.

I've tried to persuade him not to go for the lead role but instead consider one of the others, haven't got very very far but he has now suggested that he tells the teacher what roles he'd like in order of choice (he has made a little pie-chart with percentages cos he's like that).

He'd like the lead role mainly because it has the most lines and songs, he already knows and loves the music, he has sung one of the songs with his choir.

I haven't told or asked the teacher what to do, just mentioned that this is what he wanted to do, and she has given me the task of talking him out of it.

OP posts:
Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 22/03/2018 11:13

A little pie chart... He still doesn't seem to grasp that what he wants is not his for the asking.

Original poster
obligations · 22/03/2018 11:14

This is for any teachers out there as there have been a few on this thread - would you hate it if a parent asked you to have a word with the class about being tolerant if a boy wanted to try out for a female role, or a girl for a male role?

OP posts:
Original poster
obligations · 22/03/2018 11:17

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar the only thing he is asking is for an opportunity to audition. The pie chart is (I think) him sort of him trying to come to terms with maybe not going for the lead role. He hasn't even shown it to the teacher, just me. He understands a lot of the world through maths, it is just the way he is.

OP posts:
Kleinzeit · 22/03/2018 11:22

(he has made a little pie-chart with percentages cos he's like that).

Grin Lovely!

He still doesn't seem to grasp that what he wants is not his for the asking.

I am sure he gets that perfectly well. You don't seem to grasp how children with autism reason.

she has given me the task of talking him out of it.

That is almost enough in itself to make me want to tell him to go ahead and audition for the part he wants but I understand you have to do what's in his best interests.

For me the deciding factor would be whether your DS is very likely to melt down or break down in front of the other kids if they poke fun at him. If so, then it's probably best to try to change his mind because unfortunately the class are likely to pick up on the teacher's attitude and give licence to their own. Going for the girls role, getting teased and breaking down would leave him more vulnerable to gender-based bullying later on than getting the part and wearing a frilly frock and dainty shoes throughout while ignoring all flak.

Original poster
obligations · 22/03/2018 11:34

Kleinzeit yes, he loves his percentages! Smile

Still don't know if the teacher will 'let' him audition, guess she can't stop him if girls are allowed go for male roles. Maybe I'll have to ask him how he'd handle it if everyone laughed and treat this is as one of those times that he learns when and how to take a risk socially while having a strategy to cope when it doesn't go well. Gah. Not sure again now.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 22/03/2018 11:35

Would he play it as a girl or as a boy?

Original poster
obligations · 22/03/2018 11:37

BertrandRussell as written, I'd imagine it wouldn't cross his mind to play it as a boy

OP posts:
Original poster
obligations · 22/03/2018 11:38

I wouldn't think of asking the teacher if she could change it so the lead is a boy, I really haven't asked her anything about it and I'm not sure how welcome any kind of suggestions would be

OP posts:
derxa · 22/03/2018 11:45

In an ideal world the teacher could have a boy playing the female lead and changing 'societal norms'. However maybe she's just a teacher who wants the easier route through quite a difficult term. The children have done SATs and can be demob happy. You say she hasn't understood your DS's issues and hasn't handled them well. However she is at least trying to spare him the pain of a possibly painful experience.

Original poster
obligations · 22/03/2018 12:05

derxa yes, think she wants an easier route for sure, and I get that. I've a meeting with the head of the school tomorrow so I might mention this - she is just checking in about some stuff to do with resourcing and will want to know how he is doing in general. If I mention it, it would not be as a complaint about the CT, more as something that is weighing heavily on his mind. She is very wise and flexible so may have a good perspective. CT isn't that into working with us.

OP posts:
derxa · 22/03/2018 12:18

I hope the meeting goes well Flowers

LadyRenoir · 22/03/2018 12:55

@obligations As a teacher, I think that people think of us a bit too harshly. I work in a very liberal area so there would be no surprise if a boy tried to audition for a female role, but we also have kids who would be very mean about it. Unfortunately kids are just kids and you can't just change their minds like this with a flick of a finger.

I would definitely be up to talking to the class, but also a lot of the things come from home, so if the parents of children are very conservative, I can talk all I want and get nowhere.

The teacher was probably just surprised and maybe has not handled or phrased what she said well, which we are all guilty of I am pretty sure.
Also, while in class she cab control the class, break times and lunchtimes he can be open to bullying/laughing, and this is not something teachers can supervise all the time.

Original poster
obligations · 22/03/2018 13:08

LadyRenoir thanks very much for responding, it is great to hear a teacher's perspective. I think you're right about the teacher being surprised, she did a little eyeroll (a bit - 'what now?!') and I'm not saying she's wrong or demonising her or anything. It would be helpful in general if we felt she would work with us even a little to help ds understand things a bit. Tbh she has been pretty conservative all year about him so while I wish her well etc I'm not holding out for a huge amount of understanding or flexibility.

OP posts:
QuackPorridgeBacon · 22/03/2018 14:32

Have you actually tried just talking to the teacher? If you eat nowhere hen make the decision yourself. Let him audition and wait for the fall out and do whatever it is you do to calm him down then move on. Or if the fall out will be too much just firmly explain that he won’t handle the laughter and he shouldn’t go for the role.

QuackPorridgeBacon · 22/03/2018 14:33

I wouldn’t be encouraging him to tell the teacher what roles he wants because isn’t that her job to decide based on auditions? Just go for the role he wants and if he doesn’t get it he should wait to see what he does.