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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to try to talk my ds out of auditioning for a female role in school play?

287 replies

obligations · 21/03/2018 10:43

My ds (11) loves acting, and has an asd which partly means he can get very stuck on an idea and find it hard to move on to make his own life easier.
His school will be putting on a summer play and the lead role is a female one - he is adamant he wants to audition for that role, although some pretty big parts are more obviously male, he says it would be sexist if he wasn't allowed go for the female part and really wants to. I explained his classmates might laugh at him but he says they shouldn't.
The problem is that he gets upset if he feels ridiculed and I had a word with his teacher to advise her that he might get upset if he gets laughed at and she has asked me to try to talk him out of it as there are 'social norms' that he should understand.
So I'm dreading having to tackle it but for him to have an easier time I really think I should. BTW he has never said he feels female, he just wants this role. Anyone got any advice on how best to approach this?

OP posts:
Luckyme2 · 21/03/2018 14:10

Yes I agree. Badly handled by the teacher here. Hope your DS keeps his spirits and his love of performing up OP. I'd try and protect him from this one though

xyla589 · 21/03/2018 14:11

@Kleinzeit

I'm off to see the Royal Shakespeare Company "Julius Caesar" with a female Cassius

With respect, that's a bit different. I've seen Shakespeare productions too where a part has swapped gender - e.g. Michael Cassio became Michelle Cassio in an Othello production - but in these cases, the character was gender-swapped.

It wasn't a woman playing a man, it was a woman playing a woman.

It's not the same as the lead role - a female character - being played by a boy.

StormTreader · 21/03/2018 14:15

"it isn't the sound of music, but the part is as much a female role as Maria but a girl in their early teens."

So more of a Juliet then or an Eliza Doolittle? I wonder if theres any potential to swap the gender of the person playing her romeo/professor equivalent?

Kleinzeit · 21/03/2018 14:17

It wasn't a woman playing a man, it was a woman playing a woman.

True, it is not exactly the same thing (sigh)

Mydoghatesthebath · 21/03/2018 14:18

Could the teacher being more pragmatic and knowing her class better though than unsupportive op?

She knows some of the children may laugh at a boy auditioning and She knows as well as you he won’t get it and will have a melt down?

Isn’t that being pro actively protecting him as many of us feel you should over this? Surely that is having his Back?

BertrandRussell · 21/03/2018 14:19

"It wasn't a woman playing a man, it was a woman playing a woman."

Yes of course-you're right. And Judi Dench was Prospera. The interest comes from looking at the part through a different prism. Seeing the Prospero character as a mother, not a father, for example added a new layer to the part. Off hand, I can't think of any women's parts that would gain anything by being played as men-I suppose that's because the default human is male so being female adds interest by definition because of the power balance. Portia wouldn't make sense as Portio-he'd just be another bloke in the court room.

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 21/03/2018 14:23

That's hardly any more fair, though, Stormtreader, is it? Why take a part away from a girl by tailoring it especially for a boy who just happens to want it?
Op's ds wouldn't necessarily get the part even if it was up for grabs by all the boys.

veuveo · 21/03/2018 14:27

My DS 10 is very involved in drama and singing.
I'm struggling to see why his classmates would laugh at him, especially if the drama teacher normalised it.
Shakespeare's female parts were all played by men.
It's drama, playing a part.

ILoveAntButHateDec · 21/03/2018 14:28

Just a thought - two of my teens have been involved in productions outside school. Drama groups and schools have to pay for the rights to put on a show. (If it’s a show that has appeared on the west end).

One of the stipulations is that gender roles cannot be reversed. That means if there are not enough boys (which is usual in drama groups) girls cannot fill in for boys parts.

CuboidalSlipshoddy · 21/03/2018 14:28

And Judi Dench was Prospera.

Helen Mirren, if we're thinking of Julie Traynor's film.

Harriet Walter did an amazing Prospero recently, too.

BertrandRussell · 21/03/2018 14:31

“I'm struggling to see why his classmates would laugh at him, especially if the drama teacher normalised it.“

You’re struggling to see why a class of 10/11 year olds wouldn’t laugh at a boy auditioning for the part of Maria Von Trapp, or similar? You are either disingenuous or naive.

StormTreader · 21/03/2018 14:33

"That's hardly any more fair, though, Stormtreader, is it? Why take a part away from a girl by tailoring it especially for a boy who just happens to want it?
Op's ds wouldn't necessarily get the part even if it was up for grabs by all the boys."

That's very true, but by saying that some people MUST NOT AUDITION for a number of parts, you don't know what potential you're working with. There may be a girl who wants to audition for the other role as well and suddenly a new possibility is open to you. I'm certainly not saying he SHOULD get this or any other role, but the teacher is limiting herself and her students by pre-limiting who can audition for what.

Original poster
obligations · 21/03/2018 14:34

Mydoghatesthebath yes, good dose of pragmatism...but maybe a bit of fatalism too

OP posts:
Notonthestairs · 21/03/2018 14:35

So he's off to secondary soon, will he go with the same classmates?
If they will all move together my fear would be that the teasing will continue beyond Yr 6.

I think I'd intervene but I'd feel crap about it because I think he should have the chance to fail (as it were).

I have a ten year old boy and he and his friends have as a group a real conformist streak. It doesn't make life easy for any child that can't or won't comply with the norms.
My ASD DD has this all to come.

Kleinzeit · 21/03/2018 14:37

OP you say your DS would be OK about being rejected for the part. So I think the teacher has a problem because by the sound of things she might not have a solid reason for not giving him the part. Assuming his voice doesn't break between now and the performance he could probably do it and if he's a chorister quite possibly sing better than any of the girls.

The teacher has a tricky situation to manage. I would try to give your DS the tools to manage as best he can, but really this is her classroom and her play.

Is the teacher saying that there is no point in your DS auditioning because she will not give the part to a boy no matter how good he is? Because really if those are the rules it's her job to say so, not yours.

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 21/03/2018 14:39

It's quite possible she has said so, Klein.

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 21/03/2018 14:40

If he's that good he'll get another part. Just not the girl's one.

veuveo · 21/03/2018 14:40

Bertrand - I have a 10 year old boy and his classmates wouldn't laugh at him for playing a girls part. But obviously the OP knows the kids in their school and feels that they would.
But drama is very strong at their school and taken very seriously.

peacheachpearplum · 21/03/2018 14:43

Frakka the lead in every school play for the last 4 years has been female, even in a 'male' role. That is his experience - that girls are allowed audition for male roles, so he's asking for the same.

Well he's right then isn't he, it is unfair. Maybe the teacher could explain the social norms of it being OK to let girls have male parts and not OK for boys to have female parts.

Marcipex · 21/03/2018 14:48

Singing ability aside, I think it would be cruel to let him wear ruby slippers and a frilly dress and carol away in front of his peers. Of course they'll laugh. Probably for years. How is anyone going to stop them?

peacheachpearplum · 21/03/2018 14:51

I'd probably raise an eyebrow if say Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz was played by a boy when there were plenty of talented girls in the school who wanted the part. But what if there aren't any talented girls, or at least not as talented as the boy? Dorothy needs someone who can sing more than it needs to be a girl. I can't think of anything in the Wizard of Oz that would be damaged by making Dorothy into Donny and if Donny is the best singer it would be better for the play, it would be hideous with a girl who couldn't carry a tune in a bucket.

Obviously there might be a fantastic female singer in the class in which case she would get the part on merit.

DickTERFin · 21/03/2018 14:52

I did a lot of theatre in my youth and am a little Hmm at the notion of girls being allowed to audition for the boys parts.

In my experience the girls always vastly outnumbered the boys and because I was tall and can sing in a lower range, I was almost always cast in a male role, not because I wanted it, but because there were not enough boys available. I would have loved to have had a shot at the female lead (or even one of the better male leads which were always given to one of the few males), but I was needed to fill the gaps in the male talent pool. Filling the gaps with whoever is available is not the same as allowing girls to go for whichever part they fancy, regardless of gender.

That said, the teacher could have just held open auditions and not made it part specific and then just cast as they saw fit that way no one "loses" a part, they just get the role the teacher thought most suited them. Could the teacher change the format at this stage?

If not, in terms of your son, I think at this stage it needs to be plainly set out that the female lead is not open to him, he will not get the part and if he insists on auditioning for it he is opening himself up for disappointment and ridicule. I wouldn't get into a nuanced debate with him not because there isn't a nuanced debate to be had, but because it any opening will allow him to "hook into" the idea that he should be able to audition for that role.

peacheachpearplum · 21/03/2018 14:52

Marcipex maybe he wouldn't need the frilly dress and the shoes could be red trainers.

g1itterati · 21/03/2018 14:59

Just tell him straight that this year, the main role is a female part. Why the drama? Next year it may well be a male part and girls will not be allowed to audition for that. The same rules apply to him as everyone else and the teacher has said that this part will be given to a girl.

Talk to him about real theatre - i.e. male parts are generally played by men and vice versa (except for boys in Shakespeare, but this sounds as if it's not Shakespeare). Would you have a female Jean Valjean or Phantom if the Opera? No you would not because it's ridiculous, for the same reason as you would not have a male Evita. Same on any movie. That's life.

Marcipex · 21/03/2018 15:01

I get that, peach, and red trainers are a good idea. But I'm afraid he might be nicknamed Judy, Dorothy, Annie, or whatever, for years to come. Kids are rotten to each other :(

If his singing is so good, can't he be found a solo? Eg Follow the Yellow Brick Road, or Hard Knock Life, but not Someday My Prince Will Come....