To things isn't really a huge drama

[inmyshoos]

Dd 11 and her friend had a sleepover. It transpires they played a game of show me yours I'll show you mine. Friend goes home and her mum felt she was out of sorts and it all came out. Then I get a phone call saying her dd11 was pushed into it. Felt she couldn't say no. That she feels terrible because she knows it's wrong etc. They like their dc to keep their innocence as long as poss etc
I told her honestly I think it's normal. It's curiosity. It's not sexual at all in my opinion.
Since then she has avoiding me, her dd is no longer allowed to come over and I think my dd feels her friend has distanced herself.
I spoke openly to the mum saying just difference of opinion. They are very religious, we are not and whilst she feels it's 'shameful ' I feel it's completely innocent and no big drama. AIBU here?

yetanotherspartacus I don't see what is wrong with what toffee posted. There is no mention of who was to blame or who started it. Just an acknowledgement of their child's feelings being taken seriously. Your message on the other hand would immediately get someone's back up.

My 3 year old knows he isn't to show people his private parts.
And no my child wouldn't be gong back to your house again.

By age 11, they should have done the 'pants rules' at school, which makes it clear that it is your body, and you shouldn't be pressured into showing anyone else/letting anyone else touch you etc. If the other girl felt pressured into it, that is really unpleasant, and it's sad that she was upset by it.

OP I agree with others that this would be perfectly normal at 5 or 6, but at 11 it isn't. We're one of those laid back houses who are happy to wander around naked, and DD doesn't think twice about coming in to chat to me while I'm in the bath, but she's been very keen on her own privacy, and keeping covered up, since she was about 9.

I agree, therefore, that you should have a gentle chat with your DD about respecting other people's desire to keep their bodies to themselves. On another note, I know that this kind of behaviour, at this sort of age, is often a flag with Social Services who are already keeping an eye on a family, as they consider it a sign that a child may be encouraged to play these kind of games by an adult, and may be being groomed. I am not saying that's happening with your DD at all, but when you have a chat it would be good to keep it in mind, so that you can pick up on anything she says that might indicate that.

It might just be that this is just your DD's character, and it's most likely that nothing was meant by it, but she does at least need to know that it's not really on. It reminds me of those communal changing rooms in the 80s where some people would completely strip off, and others would hide under their coat! I was one of the strippers

I went to 2 different girl's boarding schools.

school one - veyr open, we all changed in front of each other and there was some competativenes over who had more pubic hair etc.
Actually it was a wonderfully healthy atmosphere, I remember started my periods and one of the older girls very matter of factly explaining stuff. Anmd late night conversations about using tampons and how ot insert them!!

school two - get changed behind a towel, never, ever show your body to anyone, totally private, no conversations about anything like that at all.

Personally I felt the first school was much better in this regard, and have brought my kids up in the same way.

I don't think 'show me yours is odd at 11 at all'

BUT if her dd was unhappy about it, that is reason enough for it not to happen. The issue for me isn't the bodies, it is the consent and pushing someone into something. (if that happened, not saying it did)
Of course it is also possible that coming from a very restrictive background she was desperate for information, and only afterwards decided it was not for her.

I would discourage it, mainly as it might indicate a lack of understanding about private body parts which could get her into trouble at some point

There is no mention of who was to blame or who started it. Just an acknowledgement of their child's feelings being taken seriously. Your message on the other hand would immediately get someone's back up

I disagree. There was implied acceptance of blame. If actually seeking truth (or at least the accused's POV) gets someone's back up then so be it.

If my dd came home from a sleepover upset and told me this story, I would believe her and suggest she distanced herself from the friend. I don’t think I would contact the other mother though. This is not painting the other girl as a predator or anything bad. But there was obviously something wrong with the dynamic that upset one of them. I think both sets of parents need to talk about bodily autonomy and respecting privacy. And I don’t think this is common behaviour at this age.

BUT if her dd was unhappy about it, that is reason enough for it not to happen. The issue for me isn't the bodies, it is the consent and pushing someone into something. (if that happened, not saying it did)
Of course it is also possible that coming from a very restrictive background she was desperate for information, and only afterwards decided it was not for her

There is just so much we don't know, including that the accusing child might need assistance to say 'no'!

and I have 2 dds, one age 13 and one age 10.

At 13 she is very private, has been since secondary I think.
At 10 she is still dancing round in her undies, dropping her towel after her bath etc and we are forever saying DD - PUT CLOTHES ON - THE CURTAINS ARE OPEN

But they walk in and chat to me when I am getting dressed, just out of the shower.

I agree with you OP. Many kids play show me yours and I will show you mine at 4/5 years old, and then do it again at about 9/10/11.
Most kids do not tell their parents because they know they will get the over the top reaction shown by most parents here. But it is perfectly normal.

@spartacus
There’s no “the accused”, nobody is looking for “evidence” to prove anything. All the other parent said is that their dd won’t be staying at the op’s house again. It isn’t a matter for court.

I agree spartacus. But the Op can only deal with her own daughter, which is to talk to her about if she has crossed someone else's boundaries, and that the time has come to say we are too old for this game.

Can I just say, that as a woman I am happy to strip off and get changed in a female changing room (basically showing my bits) eg after swimming

If I was with good friends and we were sharing a room/tent etc we would just strip off and get changed, we wouldn't huddle in the bathroom under our nighties.

So why is it not ok for two friends age 11 to do it, but is ok for two women?

There’s no “the accused”, nobody is looking for “evidence” to prove anything.

But there is. The other girl's Mother has effectively said "her dd11 was pushed into it. Felt she couldn't say no. That she feels terrible because she knows it's wrong etc." (or at least this is her mother's words to the OP). Most posters seem to be accepting this as gospel truth without wanting to find out what actually happened, which could have been any number of things!

It's really not normal at 11 OP!

Many girls are already into puberty then.

I think you're the one with the problem and need to have a serious talk.

and that the time has come to say we are too old for this game

Look, that I agree with - for reasons of community standards, learning about boundaries, etc.

Yep that would also work but if you read carefully i make no acknowledgement or who was at fault or who wasnt. Merely that DD had caused upset that wasnt intentional and there was an easy way of avoiding it happening again. It doesn't really matter who instigated it, in the end their DD was upset.

Of course that's assuming I wanted the relationship to continue. If I had concerns that everytime their DD did something contrary to their values or that she felt uncomfortable with after, they were going to blame DD, I'd be advisng DD to be ending the relationship anyway.

As it is the conversation I'd have with DD would run that different people have different values and that drives what you do. as she hits teenage year she might find more situations where her friend's values are at odds with hers and might lead to them taking very different or having very different emotional reactions to the same situation. She need to be respectful of those values but also be aware that the differences may at some point become too big for the relationship to continue.

I agree with you, OP, it's rather sad that the other mum has overreacted in this way.

I don't think this is normal at 11 either and wouldn't be encouraging anymore sleepovers or playdates in that mother's position tbh. I'm not religious either so I don't think that comes into it. Clearly for her to tell her mother there was an element of uncomfortableness with what happened whether she felt coerced into it or otherwise.

"Curiosity" is for toddlers or preschoolers imo - I wouldn't be particularly happy if my 7yo were doing this with her friends even.

I think you need to be having a chat with your DD about what is appropriate.

Merely that DD had caused upset that wasnt intentional

How do we know she caused it? Participated in it yes, but we don't know she caused it.

That’s not normal at 11. If they were younger, maybe 4 or 5 sure, but 11 is far too old and something isn’t right.

YABU.

There is a difference between being naked or getting changed in front of friends and “showing”.

Sorry I’m in the camp of not appropriate behaviour from 11 year olds.

"So why is it not ok for two friends age 11 to do it, but is ok for two women?"

Because one didn't want to?

“Merely that DD had caused upset that wasnt intentional

How do we know she caused it? Participated in it yes, but we don't know she caused it.”

We don’t. Which is why I wouldn’t have contacted the OP if I had been the other mother. But I would have believed my dd and made it OK for her to distance herself if that’s what she wanted to do. Whatever happened she was upset, so something was wrong with the dynamic of the friendship.

It really doesn't matter who started it. The fact is the child has stated she felt upset and that she couldn't say no. Kids are always told they should speak out if they feel like this and now she has done but those feelings, which are her legitimate feelings that shes entitled to, are just being dismissed in my view, just because the op doesn't agree.