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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To things isn't really a huge drama

209 replies

inmyshoos · 20/03/2018 10:37

Dd 11 and her friend had a sleepover. It transpires they played a game of show me yours I'll show you mine. Friend goes home and her mum felt she was out of sorts and it all came out. Then I get a phone call saying her dd11 was pushed into it. Felt she couldn't say no. That she feels terrible because she knows it's wrong etc. They like their dc to keep their innocence as long as poss etc
I told her honestly I think it's normal. It's curiosity. It's not sexual at all in my opinion.
Since then she has avoiding me, her dd is no longer allowed to come over and I think my dd feels her friend has distanced herself.
I spoke openly to the mum saying just difference of opinion. They are very religious, we are not and whilst she feels it's 'shameful ' I feel it's completely innocent and no big drama. AIBU here?

OP posts:
tigerrun · 20/03/2018 11:01

I wouldn't want my child going back to a house if that had happened at 11. I have actively avoided sending one of my kids to a sleepover with a child who had instigated similar with another friend in the village. I didn't want him to be put in that situation or be made to feel uncomfortable or worse.

We are a very open family, don't worry about nudity (unless we have guests), discuss sex and bodies in an age appropriate way - very supportive and open about the changes bodies go through and are not remotely religious. But body autonomy is SO important, for everyone of all ages.

Being pressured to show parts of your body to anyone at any age is never OK. Maybe time for a talk about consent? If a boy had pressured your daughter into this would you still be totally cool with it? That girl has left your house and spoken up about a situation in which she felt uncomfortable after showing presumably her private parts having been coerced into it by your daughter - do you think she should have kept her mouth shut? Not a great message moving forward is it. Eleven is old enough for this to be wildly inappropriate and for her to know - or be taught - better.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 20/03/2018 11:03

Being pressured to show parts of your body to anyone at any age is never OK

There is no evidence she was pressured - just an allegation! And we don't know what circumstances that was made under.

Loonoon · 20/03/2018 11:05

I don't think anyone is being unreasonable here. You just have differing opinions on the matter. I am pretty much on your side in thinking that it was probably innocent but if they and/or their daughter feel differently you can't change that. It will be sad for your DD if the freindship suffers, but at her age friendships naturally ebb and flow for many different reasons so it might have happened anyway. And at 11 your DD is old enough to learn that different people have different values and boundaries and these should be respected.

Steeley113 · 20/03/2018 11:05

That’s not normal at 11. The fact the friend felt so uncomfortable she told her Mum is very telling. You need to have words with your daughter!

YetAnotherSpartacus · 20/03/2018 11:07

That’s not normal at 11. The fact the friend felt so uncomfortable she told her Mum is very telling. You need to have words with your daughter

We actually know very little about what happened. We don't know who instigated the game or who was 'into' it and who was not.

VimFuego101 · 20/03/2018 11:08

You are glossing over the fact that this child was clearly very uncomfortable with this game. You need to teach your daughter that it's not OK to pressure another person into doing something with their body (and equally important, that she understands she can say no if someone does it to her).

YetAnotherSpartacus · 20/03/2018 11:09

You are glossing over the fact that this child was clearly very uncomfortable with this game. You need to teach your daughter that it's not OK to pressure another person into doing something with their body (and equally important, that she understands she can say no if someone does it to her)

Conjecture.

Toffeelatteplease · 20/03/2018 11:11

You feel how you feel about it.

They feel how they feel about it.

You could respect how they feel about it (whether or not you agree) and responded accordingly eg tell your daughter how uncomfortable her friend was with it and hope they can make it up

You can insist you are right (and you may be) respond how you did.

However it is somewhat inevitable if the friends family feel strongly about it the relationship will end as a result. Whether they are being reasonable or unreasonable the result will still be the same your DD loses a friend

Now you can come online and ask a bunch of strangers whether your opinion is right. But at this point it's kind of irrelevant. The question is do you feel the families response was so wrong and harmful to your DD that any upset your DD may feel about the relationship ending is minor by comparison?

If you don't and the friendship is otherwise good I would be doing damage limitation with the other family quick. If you do then our need to support your DD cos she's going to be upset.

What's more important the principle of the matter or the friendship

Titaniumpins · 20/03/2018 11:12

I disagree I think it is perfectly normal for 11 year olds to do that but for obvious reasons it should be discouraged. I don't think the OP daughter pressurised her friend and it would be innocent rather than sexuaI.

I imagine the friend felt guilty over it rather than pressurised.

However I would probably put some distance myself if it had happened to my DC even though good sense tells me its normal and healthy curiousity it would still make me uncomfortable.

There is not much else you can do apart from support your own DD. Hopefully things will blow over.

FailingMotherhood · 20/03/2018 11:13

I think it's a bit odd for them to be doing that at 11!

Singlikemiranda · 20/03/2018 11:13

Lots of people making assumptions here. Perhaps the friend suggested the game and then afterwards told her parents who weren't happy about it?

MammaTJ · 20/03/2018 11:14

I think it is time to show your DD this

I don't think for one moment she has taken advantage of the other child, but they both need to see this and have boundaries in place. I think you minimising it has added to the upset and concern and a little more concern from you could have prevented that. Just 'Oh, I'll have a chat with her about it'. It is chat-worthy, it is not something that should be ignored!

Steeley113 · 20/03/2018 11:14

@YetAnotherSpartacus the first thing you are taught in dealing with children with regards to sexual abuse (and coercion can be a form of abuse, I’m not saying this situation was) is to believe them. This child has gone to her Mum and told her she felt uncomfortable and pressured. That should be believed.

MrsJayy · 20/03/2018 11:15

This isn't usual 11 year old behaviour if they were 4 you can brush it off as curiosity but at 11 it is sexulised behaviour I am not sure what else you can do except talk to your Dd about privacy and boundries.

upsideup · 20/03/2018 11:15

I think it makes a difference what they showed?
My dd is 10 and her friends have sometimes on sleepovers spoke about bras or shown eachother theirs when changing 'like oh wow thats so cute wheres it from etc'
Inside their knickers though she shouldnt be showing her friends.

AnnieAnoniMouse · 20/03/2018 11:16

That she feels terrible because she knows it's wrong etc. They like their dc to keep their innocence as long as poss etc

There’s nothing to suggest she was actually forced or pressured into it. Far more likely she was curious owing to her upbringing, but felt guilty when she saw her parents - easy to blame the other child. There’s nothing wrong with what they did, if they were both comfortable, but she’s clearly been brought up to think nudity is terrible. ‘Keeping their innocence’ is rubbish, 11 year olds know they have bodies, seeing another 11 year olds body is not leading her into a terrible life of god knows what.

picklemepopcorn · 20/03/2018 11:17

Just a reminder that we may be wise not to share our own stories of early sexual exploration... just in case.

If I'd been the other mum I would have been a little concerned and then become much more concerned with your response. The correct response, IMO, would be 'oh dear, whatever have they been up to! I'll have a little word with DD'.

Any other response is not respecting societal or 8ndividual boundaries.

DarkRoomDarren · 20/03/2018 11:17

I don’t think it’s usual at 11 either, but it may be that the op’s dd is a little slower to develop that body shyness than the friend. I don’t necessarily think it has anything to do with the friend’s parents’ religious views or guilt / shame.

Op, I would also have words with dd about the game and the pants rule etc etc.

I’d have probably been like the friend tbh and would have felt a bit weird if I’d had this at a sleepover. It isn’t the end of the world, but I’d have found it a bit upsetting at that age, so I get why her parents aren’t allowing her round for another sleepover. Or maybe the child has said she doesn’t want to and the parents are making out it’s their rule so as not to cause trouble between the friends?

MrsRyanGosling15 · 20/03/2018 11:22

I'm very open minded about a lot of things but even I would be pissed off at this. 3/4/5 yes OK that's curiosity but not at 11 and I think your attitude to it is a bit strange to be honest. My child would not be going back and I would be giving you all a wide berth. When you have a child staying at your house they are your responsibility and if that child leaves upset or uncomfortable for whatever reason I think, even if you don't agree you need to take what the family says on board and at least say you will speak to your daughter. Will you be speaking to her about how it make the other child uncomfortable?

BoredOnMatLeave · 20/03/2018 11:22

I don't think that is normal at 11 either. Maybe around 6. I am summer born so was in Senior school at 11. Me and my friends are all quite confident but that would have been weird at that age.

I don't think it matters if your DD did or didn't pressure her. The fact is she now feels uncomfortable and that shouldn't be ignored. I wouldn't let her go back to yours.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 20/03/2018 11:24

@YetAnotherSpartacus the first thing you are taught in dealing with children with regards to sexual abuse (and coercion can be a form of abuse, I’m not saying this situation was) is to believe them. This child has gone to her Mum and told her she felt uncomfortable and pressured. That should be believed

Errr we are talking about another 11 year old girl!

We don't know the facts. We don't know that whether what the girl told the mother actually happened. We don't know whether what the mother told the other mother was what the girl said. There is so much not known.

But go ahead and paint one of two 11 year old girls as a predator!

MrsRyanGosling15 · 20/03/2018 11:25

And also you are being very dismissive of how that child felt. They both showed parts of their bodies. She felt upset and uncomfortable and felt she couldn't say no. It doesn't matter that they were both girls or the same age. I would be so upset if my child was made to feel like that and I think any normal parent after having been told about this would be reacting the same way as them. Regardless of religion. You don't appear to be taking her feelings on it very seriously.

Toffeelatteplease · 20/03/2018 11:26

The other family were looking for a reassurance that something their DD was uncomfortable with wouldn't happen within the relationship again.

You minimised their concerns and told them it was normal. Their way of protecting their DD is to ensure the opportunity doesn't arise again.

Personally I'd have gone with "Im sorry you feel that way, I will let DD know how you feel so it doesn't happen again. I'm absolutely certain from DDs part there was no intention of upsetting your DD and I know she'll be mortified to hear she was upset. Kids do stupid stuff I hope it doesn't affect the relationship going forward."

YetAnotherSpartacus · 20/03/2018 11:32

"Im sorry you feel that way, I will let DD know how you feel so it doesn't happen again. I'm absolutely certain from DDs part there was no intention of upsetting your DD and I know she'll be mortified to hear she was upset. Kids do stupid stuff I hope it doesn't affect the relationship going forward

Or

"I'm sorry you feel that way. We don't actually know what happened and I am unwilling to see my child as the instigator without evidence. I will however be having a chat with her to find out what happened ... etc."

SossidgeRoll · 20/03/2018 11:33

I feel like I fall more into your camp OP - shame and upset have no place alongside two little girls being curious and silly. I wouldn't want my DD to feel that there was something inherently WRONG about being curious about each other but at the same time you must try to appreciate that your view differs from your DD's friend's parents. Respect and true acceptance of someone else's view is very hard - especially as now you might feel your DD is being judged. I think if you want to salvage the relationship you could message and say that you took their concern very seriously and will absolutely ensure that it doesn't happen again - no mention of how you have dealt with your DD or your view on it etc as that simply isn't relevant to the other mother.