Changing rooms - who was unreasonable?

[Loobyloomicles]

Not the 90s decorating programme, but a question about boys in female changing rooms.

My 7 year old nephew regularly goes to swimming lessons, my Dad (his GF) usually takes him but the other week my Mum (GM) did instead. After swimming, mum took nephew to the female changing rooms as there are no family/unisex ones. He was having a quick shower post swim, mum was just round the corner getting his towel and clothes and heard a woman telling him off, asking why was he there (to which he replied 'Grandma told me to!') and that he was 'a naughty little boy' to be in the girl's changing rooms. My mum went straight back and got a mouthful off the woman, who was going on about how inappropriate it was.

My mum was angry that the woman had upset my nephew, rather than taking it up with her first. However, she felt bad about him using the girl's shower. She has decided that at the moment she will continue to use the cubicles in the girl's changing rooms if it's just her but will not get nephew to have a shower.

So who is being unreasonable here? Personally I think it's the leisure centre - for not having a family changing room/shower but I also feel that the woman was being a bit oversensitive, especially when considering that my nephew looks really young for his age (often gets mistaken for a 5 year old).

So what do people do when they turn 8 and have to go into the men's?

They either have to manage or if they cant their parents wont be able take them swimming there anymore.
DS is 4 and in theory he could actually manage to get undressed and put his swimming costume on without me but for many reasons is safer and more practicle for me to bring him into the ladies with me, I wont be sending into the mens alone any sooner than I have to, same with the ladies I wouldnt send him in their to get dressed alone while I sat in the cafe.

If there were plenty of cubicles then it's pretty much a non problem surely, everyone has privacy. The pools I have in mind where this is an issue have a couple of cubicles and a big communal area in the ladies'.

She shouldn't have spoken to the boy - it's hardly going to be a decision he can make about where he is changing at that age.

We have 8 as a cut off in our small community pool for children going into the opposite rooms. There are some cubicles in both the female and male changing areas with large open changing areas in both plus two family changing rooms (outside the male or female areas ) and two disabled rooms with additional hoists that can be used ,mas a lower priority, by others. I have no idea about the male changing areas but it is entirely normal there for women the to strip off their costumes and shower and change in the larger open areas without doing any strange contortions under towels etc. I think it is a very healthy thing for children to see nudity in non sexualised terms, just as a natural part of life. The only people who seem to get wound up about it are teenage girls, who will queue for the cubicles rather than quickly change in the open area - it is a time of extreme body image sensitivity so I understand that. The adult women i.e. 20 + , are all quite happy to chat whilst changing without making a fuss.

If a naked 7YO boy is a problem, then so is a 3YO one..... they are both prepubescent children

It's not about the nakedness of the boy, it's about the females - young and old, getting changed in their space without worrying about being stared at or feeling self conscious. And, yes, I know....he's only 7, a child, but 1) if you are a young girl of 10/11/12...chances are you are painfully aware of the changes happening to your body, and could do without boys in there, even if they aren't looking at you (hell, my dds hate it when their 7 year old brother barges in their room!) and 2) some 7 year olds might not be interested in staring at half naked bodies, but lots are!

HanaK - at my ds's school girls and boys change separately for swimming and pe from yr 1.

What a bloody idiot that woman is.

Can guarantee she didn't have kids.

What is the world coming to when a seven year old taking a shower is an intimidating threat and to then tackle your Mother?

She is the one with the issue if she felt THAT uncomfortable about a little boy being there then she should have used a cubicle. He was doing nothing wrong and to call him a naughty boy? Wtf. I'd make a complaint to the leisure centre!

So what do people do when they turn 8 and have to go into the men's?

Mostly they send them into the men's, which mostly is OK with an 8 year old. In our case, not, so we found alternatives.

It's not about the nakedness of the boy, it's about the females - young and old, getting changed in their space without worrying about being stared at or feeling self conscious.

Its not just their space though, it is also a space for boys under 8 to feel safe. And plenty of females young and old may feel self concious in front of other females as well as the boys.
They are all equally entitled to be in there.

But what's safer about being 8 than being 7?

We already have one who said 10.

If it's not safe then surely it's still unsafe at 8?

This is where it gets contradictory bevause people are more angry at the girls for being uncomfortable than they are at the unsafe changing rooms.

Well there’s a pretty big difference between just turned 7 and 8. But regardless there has to be a cut off somewhere. I think 8 is about right and is what the age has always been at the pools I’ve used.

But what's safer about being 8 than being 7?

This is where it gets contradictory bevause people are more angry at the girls for being uncomfortable than they are at the unsafe changing rooms.

I know my oldest son from the day he turned 7 till the day he turned 8 had matured masively.
I dont think the mens changing rooms itself is unsafe (for the most part) I think its is unsafe and unpracticle for a small child to have to change alone with starngers without their parent anywhere not just in the mens changing rooms. Like I said earlier I wouldnt send 4 year old ds to get changed in the womens alone either, I would be a lot more worried about him messing around/making a mess/slipping over/ loosing his clothes/ getting in peoples way etc than I would him being abused in both.
No one is angry at them for being uncomfortable but its not the little boys fault they are just as entitled to be in there.

should have said he was a girl and got the staff to explain to the shouty women.

Thing is the paedophile excuse has been used to justify 9 10 11 plus kids in the wrong changing room.

So with regards to maturity I can understand. Days can make a difference in those case

But as far as predators go a kid is no safer at 8 than 7.

And when people say that it's too dangerous even for the older kids and people pile on to agree they seem to acknowledge that these are the very sons and teens they are avoiding that they said are perfectly safe to be around the opposite sex and won't be looking.

The answer is definately more cubicals. Better disabled facilities and family changing.

But parents do also need a back up plan that doesn't impose on the girls should those not be available.

And on the men too because I don't think it's fair they are made uncomfortable either. Boys go through puberty too and it's not fair on them either

Don't seem to acknowledge

As I've mentioned, I would not want to send a young boy into a men's changing room unsupervised and I think many of the people, if not everybody, on here agrees with that position. I do wish, however, that people wouldn't say that because they wouldn't mind having a boy of seven in the changing room that everyone else should feel the same, they don't! I also don't feel I should have to apologise or defend myself for feeling that way. Yes, it's perfectly reasonable to teach children about body confidence and the human body is natural and all that, but it is also reasonable for some people to be private about their bodies. The main problem is, as in this instance, where there are no individual cubicles or additional unisex areas.

TheRedHatofPatFerrick I too absolutely detest communal changing rooms and I would always chose to use an individual cubicle. I've always been this way and I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

Our local pool doesn't have male/female sections, anyone can use any cubicle or shower.

I don't think I would feel comfortable with my DD being by herself tbh.

The Scandinavians and Germans must think we are hilarious. In saunas there you all go in naked.

Most swimming pools are unisex changing with some cubicles. They sometimes have separate showers with doors. You mustn't wear swimming costume to shower even in communal showers, it is considered unhygienic.

Most Germans would just say it's just naked bodies, we all have one.

Gileswithachainsaw I agree that more family and disabled changing areas and facilities are needed. Although we are now possibly going a bit off topic, I have a disabled friend who has told me how he has had to use the disabled changing room before. Being able to access the pool makes a big difference to his quality of life.

TuftedLadyGrotto I'm not trying to be rude, but I don't care if German people would laugh at me for being prudish. I like to chose who I am naked in front of, end of.

Thing is the paedophile excuse has been used to justify 9 10 11 plus kids in the wrong changing room.

There certainly isnt any of that on this thread. The cut of point is 8, if your over 8 then you go in the correct changing rooms.

So with regards to maturity I can understand. Days can make a difference in those case
But as far as predators go a kid is no safer at 8 than 7.

The older a child is the mature they are and more likely to be able to recognise and avoid abuse, 8 year old ds would be much more able to shout and get help or say no than a younger child.

But as an absolute minimum I would say 8 where a unisex facility is available and 10 when there isn’t (purely because it would mean that your son would have to go into the men’s alone)

I used to pay a lot for a private gym and at weekends I hated it as it was family time. There would be ypubgnlads staring at ladies changing and there was one cubicle only asbit was a ladies changing room. There was a sign up about age limits but it still pissed me off. I din’t Want to be changing under a towel because mothers were bringing in their lads who would stare or as two did, shout ‘I just saw her boobies!’ at a lady changing.

Ninth birthday in our pool. No family changing, no cubicles, and nowhere to put any. Bench and lockers only. I don't want girls older than that around while I am changing - for their protection and mine. That can be hard on fathers taking their children swimming - and especially for widowed fathers - but that's how it is in that pool.

It's fine, next time he can just self ID as a girl and then anyone who objects will be accused of a hate crime. Job done.

Seriously, any of you who think there should be an age cut-off for boys in the women's changing area need to read up about self ID before it gets snuck in by the back door and then it's not just 8 year old boys you'll need to be wary of.

Any man who says he's a woman will be able to come in and get changed next to you at the gym/pool. No he doesn't need to wear a dress, take hormones, have surgery, he just needs to say "how very dare you, I AM A WOMAN!" and you will have to take his word for it, beard and all.

At my gym the changing rooms are communal. At weekends, children are allowed but if boys are in the women’s they tend to stare, which is really off-putting.

If you are that prudish then don’t change in a changing room where the rules allow 7yo boys in. If that’s the rule then they have as much right o be there as 40yr old women. And I’d say toddler girls are much more likely to be staring and mentioning boobies than a 7yr old boy who would likely have enough social skill not to.

Boys are going to stare at women’s private parts and that is a problem. Young girls do not want a boy looking at them naked either. Why should they?

The center should have a family changing room.