Changing rooms - who was unreasonable?

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Not the 90s decorating programme, but a question about boys in female changing rooms.

My 7 year old nephew regularly goes to swimming lessons, my Dad (his GF) usually takes him but the other week my Mum (GM) did instead. After swimming, mum took nephew to the female changing rooms as there are no family/unisex ones. He was having a quick shower post swim, mum was just round the corner getting his towel and clothes and heard a woman telling him off, asking why was he there (to which he replied 'Grandma told me to!') and that he was 'a naughty little boy' to be in the girl's changing rooms. My mum went straight back and got a mouthful off the woman, who was going on about how inappropriate it was.

My mum was angry that the woman had upset my nephew, rather than taking it up with her first. However, she felt bad about him using the girl's shower. She has decided that at the moment she will continue to use the cubicles in the girl's changing rooms if it's just her but will not get nephew to have a shower.

So who is being unreasonable here? Personally I think it's the leisure centre - for not having a family changing room/shower but I also feel that the woman was being a bit oversensitive, especially when considering that my nephew looks really young for his age (often gets mistaken for a 5 year old).

We're regularly and rightly informed on here to bring up our sons in a way that teaches them respect for women etc etc etc
Unfortunately it seems we should also bring up our daughters to view all 7/8 year old boys as dangerous perverts.

Your the one afraid of these very boys being paedophiles in the men's and avoiding them.

The girls just don't want people with different bodies who they probabky go to school with seeing them naked

Assuming he's under the cut off the other woman is unreasonable. Even if he was over the cut off she was unreasonable to be nasty to him and imply it was his fault, especially as I would assume it was your DMs decision for him to be in there - and there would still be no need for rudeness.

Reminds me of an utter cow bag teacher at my juniors who would regularly lay into 7-11 year olds in public for their lateness in the mornings. The reason was usually event beyond child's control so she was telling off the monkey not the organ grinder.

Children in year 2 and year 3 at school still get changed together for PE, so I can't see this is much of a problem.

The thing is - the girls changing room is for girls - and some girls feel uncomfortable changing infront of boys of similar age. While it might be nice to have a shower after swimming - its not essential. I just used to take my son home to shower.
I remember having a shower at a private gym in London - only to come out and have a 7 year old boy staring straight at my boobs. I'm sure it was just because he was tall enough to have my boobs at eye level - but it was uncomfortable. No one had told me that for 2 hours on a Saturday they had children's swimming lessons at this gym so I was not expecting to see any children.

hana

Just because the boy is 7 doesn't mean the girls aren't older

It's irrelevant what yr 2s do when there will be girls up to teenage years in the room

The girls just don't want people with different bodies who they probabky go to school with seeing them naked

We should be protecting our children from potential harm and allowing them to be children. Seven year olds, male or female, should be carefree enough to run around naked in the garden FFS! A seven year old, male or female, should not be sexualised enough to care about other prepubescent children being naked or seeing them naked. This reeks of child sexualisation or at least socialisation into gendered 'norms' at an early age. Let the children be children. Seven is far too young to be worried about nakedness in a changing room around other children. If there were adult women changing who were uncomfortable they could have used the cubicles. This was a young child.

The girls just don't want people with different bodies who they probabky go to school with seeing them naked
I think many girls, and boys, don't want to be seen naked by any strangers, or even school friends.
When I was little there were ALWAYS cubicles to change in, and when my DCs were little I can't think is a single pool we visited where there weren't cubicles.
It seems to have changed in an unexpected way, with a massive reduction in privacy.

I have a suspicion it may be intended to avoid the remote risk of someone being taken into a cubicle against their will, and no one knowing - but it seems odd to sacrifice all privacy for everyone just in case.
Also, if thats the logic, we'd need to get rid of cubicles in toilets too :-o.

One thing that really annoys me about these types of threads is its assumed that young girls don't have rights too. Comments like its OK - they get changed at PE together (yes but they aren't taking all their clothes off) - or we are bringing girls up to worry about 7 year old boys being perverts. Nothing to do with it. If my daughter (and I also have a son) feels uncomfortable changing infront of a boy - she has a right to feel that way - and why can't her feelings be valid?
My son has ASD - at 7 he was younger in age when it came to common sense and he was not capable of getting changed etc unsupervised - but also having a daughter I knew it wasn't right to have him shower in the girls changing room because it was more convenient for me...I took him home to shower.

The female pool changing room is not just just designed for girls though, its for women and children of both sex.
That is the safest option, if the cut of is under 8's then a 7 year old boy has no less rights to be in there than a 7 year old girl or a new born boy. Same goes for the mens changing rooms.

For the last time it's the women's changing room which will have girls and women of all ages who expect to be among other girls and women.

That's nothing to do witg whether or not a 7 year old runs about naked and no woke in the women's changing room should not be pushed into cubicles it's their space

it's their space So what, you will ban all male from the female changing rooms? From birth? Including babies, toddlers and young children?

Teach your girls to be mindful in a public place, which it is. I would never encourage my daughters to be naked out of a cubicle in the first place, so it won't matter so much if another child is in there.

For the last time it's the women's changing room which will have girls and women of all ages who expect to be among other girls and women.
It was swimming lessons. I'm a very strong advocate of women's spaces for women, and that women's need for women's spaces should take precedence over the needs of those who feel that they should have access to those spaces while not being women to a degree which will make women comfortable.
This isn't about that. It's about at what point the sex of a prepubescent child becomes a factor. I think that at 7 the sex of a child is immaterial. This isn't a man, or a sexually inquisitive adolescent, it's a 7 year old child.

You ban boys according to cut off points and parents and carers of boys from about 5 onwards (as height can make them look older) are the ones who should just be a bit considerate of the girls and perhaps use the cubicle or a discreet corner.

Boys over the cut off well that's the parents problem to solve in a way which does not impact the girls

it's their space

Its also the space for boys under 8. No one is pushing them into cubicles, the little boys arent saying I feel uncomfortable you go in their. What you are trying to do is push them out of a space they are safest in and entitled to be in.
If a woman or girl feels uncomfortable changing in front of anyone to who is allowed in the female changing room (women or children under 8) then they can get changed in the cubicles if they want.
To protect the safety of everybody that is how it works.

It's not just the age of the boy to consoder. Dd is 11 she goes to swimming lessons she doesn't want boys in her sisters class seeing her naked.

I've already said technically if the cut off is 8 the boy isn't in the wrong BUT the problem doesn't magically go away the day of their ninth birthday so at some point you have to consider what you are going to do

At our pool the rule is 8th birthday. They are not allowed in unaccompanied until their 8th birthday but from that day on they are not allowed in the opposite sex changing room. At our pool your mum would have been exactly correct, because she was explicitly not allowed to send him into the men's by himself.

When I took DS into the ladies' at 7, they all shower in their costumes anyway so we've never considered that a particular issue. I chose not to use a cubicle with him, to leave them free for any older girls who wished to use them.

but why do you have to leave your kids naked in the changing rooms in the first place!

I hate writing this on this forum, it's full of pervs, but honestly, cubicles are there for a reason, there's no need for anyone to be naked unless they are very happy for the whole world to see.

My 10 year old dd wouldnt want girls or boys from her little brothers class to see her naked, so she changes in the cubicles.
They are not doing anything wrong, they dont need to alter their behaviour at all.

Woman was in the wrong. Until kids can can go in by themselves they have to go to the same sex changing room as the adult they are with if there is no unisex changing facilities. I imagine there would be girls around the same age in the men’s with their dads. I’ve only ever seen signs saying no children over 8 permitted in the opposite sex changing area. Maybe the child looked older but telling him he’s a naughty boy to be in there when I doubt he was breaking any rules isn’t on. Paedophiles aren’t the only dangers in changing rooms there are slippery showers and young kids are likely to mess about. I think it’s right that under 8s are supervised.

I do think it reasonable that parents don't want to send their young children of the opposite sex into changing rooms on their own. It seems like some people on here wouldn't mind having a boy of seven in the changing room, however, I don't think I'm one of them. I don't think it is unreasonable for people to be unhappy and uncomfortable for boys of seven to be in female changing rooms (I also agree that it would be just as inappropriate if we were discussing girls of seven in the men's changing room). I don't think suggesting this inappropriate is akin to calling people perverts! Also, if there are cubicles, why should women have to change in them in order to clear the main female changing room for boys? (Or vice versa!) Wouldn't it make more sense for mixed groups of parents and children to use them as they are unisex areas? Anyway I agree the simple answer is to have more cubicles, then privacy is guaranteed for all.

In this case, the woman shouldn't have shouted at your nephew, but maybe she was shocked to see him in the shower area? We don't know if she was nude or wearing a costume. If she was nude I think it at least a bit understandable that she may have been so shocked and embarrassed that she shouted at him before she could stop herself. I agree that maybe your mother should have kept him under closer supervision. Either way it clearly wasn't your nephews fault or responsibility.

The woman, no way would I send a 7 year old into a changing room on his own

So what do people do when they turn 8 and have to go into the men's?

Of course you have to get naked in front of others to get changed if there are no cubicles. Do women only worry about getting funny looks from boys in communal changing rooms? I hate communal changing rooms and that is the main reason I don't go swimming at our local pool.