Changing rooms - who was unreasonable?

[Loobyloomicles]

Not the 90s decorating programme, but a question about boys in female changing rooms.

My 7 year old nephew regularly goes to swimming lessons, my Dad (his GF) usually takes him but the other week my Mum (GM) did instead. After swimming, mum took nephew to the female changing rooms as there are no family/unisex ones. He was having a quick shower post swim, mum was just round the corner getting his towel and clothes and heard a woman telling him off, asking why was he there (to which he replied 'Grandma told me to!') and that he was 'a naughty little boy' to be in the girl's changing rooms. My mum went straight back and got a mouthful off the woman, who was going on about how inappropriate it was.

My mum was angry that the woman had upset my nephew, rather than taking it up with her first. However, she felt bad about him using the girl's shower. She has decided that at the moment she will continue to use the cubicles in the girl's changing rooms if it's just her but will not get nephew to have a shower.

So who is being unreasonable here? Personally I think it's the leisure centre - for not having a family changing room/shower but I also feel that the woman was being a bit oversensitive, especially when considering that my nephew looks really young for his age (often gets mistaken for a 5 year old).

Whilst it's absolutely true that men are far more likely to be abusers, a minimum of 5% are women too, and this shouldn't be ignored. It's a massive issue for female changing rooms, but it also affects male ones too.

My own belief isn't that the biggest danger is paedophiles, but far more likely the brazen opportunist upskirt types getting a photo or cheap thrill from seeing naked women. I can't categorically know this, it's just my gut instinct.

so yes I consider male changing areas more dangerous for children than female changing rooms

Ah, that depends on your perspective. The male changing room is statistically more likely to house a sex offender (although it's still a very small likelihood), but the female changing area now becomes the most vulnerable because the opportunist can enter it thus making the female changing room the most dangerous place.

Plus the possibility of men leaving cameras on changing rooms, toilets, showers etc. Predators gonna predate.

I don't understand people saying 'I don't know if my son would be able to use a locker and get changed alone at 8.' Teach them then - I used to go swimming with my DF as a child and managed to get myself dressed alone in the women's changing room. Unless there is a genuine reason then they should be able to change themselves.

The boy was probably more uncomfortable in the situation than the woman.

I don't see a problem with him being there. He's not doing any harm.

At my swimming pool the really old ladies like to take everything off and wander round naked. I go to a cubicle so I don't have to see

Are these swimming lessons where parents swim with their kids? If so, then probably older boys (secondary school) should probably go to their own changing rooms. But really we should think about what messages we are sending to kids at all. Should they be hiding their bodies or open and not embarrassed? By building a culture where we all hide behind our towels can encourage body shaming especially when you get to PE at schools.
It becomes different if a boy might get an ‘unexpected reaction’ to a woman’s body though!

Agree crazy

Also this showering thing. As a kid I would just use the shower to wash off my hair etc. I would never remove my costume unless it was an enclosed cubicle with privacy and still wouldn't

Gold: I don't think we should be giving kids the message that having boundaries is called 'hiding' or 'being embarrassed'. Consent and privacy are human rights. Please don't belittle them.

Prachet: think about the reverse. Research the huge increase in body shaming and eating disorders. If we teach our children to hide their bodies, in front of same and opposite sex then what message does this send? There is a difference between being an adult and protecting kids from danger but also being body confident. Why push your agenda on innocent kids? Let kids see bodies then they won’t question the minor differences. All bodies are different and if kids realise this then it can enhance their understanding of their own body.

This is not body-shaming, it's privacy. People are allowed to have boundaries. You're talking about boundary-shaming.

Goldiloz
I understand your point but reckon that's something that you need to tackle in the family as children are growing up. It's not something that I want any other 'helpful' adult to teach my children.
We used to lock up people who flashed at others (women and children mainly being their targets). Now we are giving them a free pass into the women's changing rooms to flash away to their hearts content.

No pratchett i meant all these boys who can't get them selves dressed or be trusted to not muck about or that you think aren't safe in the mens, well you are probably better off teaching them how to do it on their own because the men's is very soon going to be the safest place. All the perverts will be in the womens.

Giles eh?

Agree delusions

Lets say theres one pervert in the mens and one in the womens, if a young boy goes swimming with his mum then its safer for him to be in the womens with his parent who can look after him. It doesnt mater where the paedophile is more likely to be but where the abuse is more likely to be able to happen, when a child is undressing alone in front of strangers.

It's about privacy and boundaries and consent, as much as it is about sexual assault. Consent is a human right.

I hate sending my boys into the men's showers at our pool, it's an open shower room with 6 showers (same as the womens) but they tell me there are often naked men showering in there. I can't take them in the ladies because there are some women naked in there too. Most women just rinse off and wash hair still in costumes but there are a small number that find communal showers the ideal place to have a full body scrub down and moisturise. I wish they wouldn't, but much more I wish there were shower cubicles rather than this communal arrangement as I don't like the thought of naked strangers alone around my children.

I’m right there with you WithTwoGiantBoys. There was an incident last summer where DS and his friend (both 8) came out of the men’s changing crying and shocked. We spoke to the sports centre manager at the time, who went into the changing rooms but don’t come back with any clues as to what might have happened. DS and friend have been happy to change in there since, and there doesn’t seem to be any lasting upset, but it really bought home how vulnerable these young boys can be in there. I have chased the centre on their safeguarding policy since, but nothing has come of it.

So really, the problem could perhaps be solved with some kind of peak child time supervision in the changing areas?

I suggested this. They did it for about 2 weeks.

Naked men showering in the men’s showers - hardly a surprise and not in itself an improper, still less a perverted act, is it?

With Self ID the place where abuse is most likely to happen changes. The abuser can now walk right into a ladies room.

However, we are focusing on abusers, but the other problem is that women and girls are now faced with the prospect of seeing a penis. It may well belong to an entirely innocent trans woman, but it's a penis all the same.
Maybe there is a case that the penis shouldn't be something taboo any more than breasts or a vulva shouldn't be, but as things stand most parents want to feel in control of how and when their children learn about such things.

I don't think so. It's showering. Like the women and girls do.

We have to be really careful that we don't teach our kids to fear naked male bodies. We are creating an atmosphere where decent men are scared of being accused if they offer any hint of kindness to a child, and where children see every male stranger as a threat to them.
It's right that they understand some men can be a threat (and some women too), but we need to get the balance between awareness and paranoia right.

It is worse in the womens, theres a lot more open nudity which of course technically they can do but then the blame gets put on little boys for looking.
The other way around and if men acted the same way in the mens when dh goes in with dd then they would be accused of being a paedophile, No one be trying to blame the 7 year old girl for looking and make it out like shes the one in the wrong and the grown man is the victim.